UK Parliament / Open data

Trade Bill

My Lords, as I respond to this continuing debate today, I welcome the opportunity to discuss the important issue of the devolved Administrations’ role in international trade and to demonstrate the significant strides that the Department for International Trade has taken on this matter since the passage of the Trade Bill 2017-19. I have listened to the arguments, and the essence of this debate has been a discussion on the balance between devolved and reserved, and, as the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, said, its link to the test of good faith. There are bound to be differing views on what that balance should be.

During the passage of the previous Trade Bill, the UK Government conducted a significant programme of engagement with the devolved Administrations and your Lordships’ House to ensure that the Bill delivered for all parts of the UK, including regular meetings with devolved Ministers and attending the devolved legislative committees. As a result of this engagement, the UK Government made a number of amendments and commitments to address the devolved Administrations’ concerns. This led the Welsh Parliament to consent to the relevant clauses of that Bill. We are

conducting a similar programme of engagement for this Bill and have included all the amendments and restated all our commitments that we made to the devolved Administrations. As a result, the Welsh Government have once again recommended consent to the clauses that were contained in the previous Bill.

However, we have also gone further on this Bill and have made an additional amendment to remove a restriction on the devolved Administrations’ use of the powers in the Bill which the Scottish Government previously objected to. As a consequence, I am pleased that the Scottish Government have now also recommended consent to the Bill, and—to be helpful to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie—we are working very hard to ensure that the Northern Ireland Executive also feel able to do so. That the Welsh and Scottish Governments have already recommended consent demonstrates that the Bill is already drafted in a way that respects the devolution settlements. Indeed, in its report on the Bill, the Constitution Committee of your Lordships’ House welcomed the progress that we have made on this matter and made no recommendations for changes to devolution aspects of the Bill, which it might otherwise have done.

On Amendments 26, 27, 31 and 99, as many noble Lords have highlighted already, international trade is a reserved matter under the devolution settlements. However, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, rightly noted at Second Reading and today, in line with the noble Baroness, Lady Humphrey, on Tuesday, that the implementation of international obligations in devolved areas is a devolved matter. We absolutely recognise the devolved Administrations’ competence in this area, which is why the Bill confers powers on them so that they are able to implement our continuity agreements where they touch on devolved matters.

As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, also noted at Second Reading, these are concurrent powers that also allow the UK Government to legislate in devolved areas. We have sought to put in place concurrent powers to provide greater flexibility in how transitioned agreements are implemented, allowing each devolved Administration to implement the agreements independently in some cases, but also allowing the UK Government to legislate on a UK-wide basis where it makes practical sense to do so.

We understand that those powers should be used appropriately, which is why the Government have committed that we will not normally use the concurrent powers to legislate within devolved areas without the consent of the relevant devolved Administration, and never without consulting them first, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, said. We have also put in place a five-year sunset provision on the concurrent powers in Clause 2, which can be extended for further periods only with the agreement of both Houses of Parliament. We recognise that this would also extend the devolved Administrations’ and the UK Government’s ability to use the powers in devolved areas, and have therefore committed to the devolved Administrations that we will consult them before extending the sunset.

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To answer a question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Humphrey, on Tuesday, any regulations made under the Clause 2 power by the devolved Administrations will be subject to the affirmative procedure and will be scrutinised by the devolved legislatures in accordance with their normal procedures. The devolved Administrations and legislatures have also put in place arrangements for the scrutiny of EU exit statutory instruments made in devolved areas by UK government Ministers. For example, the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament have a protocol on the scrutiny of Scottish Ministers’ decision to consent to UK government secondary legislation on devolved matters. In their memorandum recommending consent to the Bill, the Scottish Government stated that the Bill’s powers would fall under this protocol and that this will provide their Parliament with the opportunity to scrutinise this legislation. The other devolved Administrations and legislatures are of course able to establish similar arrangements.

These working arrangements are well tested from being used for other EU exit SIs such as those made under the EU withdrawal Act, so the devolved Administrations and legislatures know exactly what procedures will fulfil our commitments in practice. That reassurance has enabled the Welsh and Scottish Governments to recommend consent to the Bill, which I alluded to earlier.

However, Amendments 26, 27, 31 and 99 would go further by placing our commitments on the face of the Bill. I am afraid that I cannot support these amendments, and I will explain my reasons why.

First, placing these commitments in statute risks legally undermining the important principle which Parliament enshrined in the devolution statutes: namely, that international trade is a reserved matter. While in practice the Government work closely with the devolved Administrations on international trade policy, it is important that its legal status as a reserved matter is preserved. The proper functioning of reserved powers is as vital to the devolution settlements as that of devolved powers.

Secondly, it would discourage consensual intergovernmental working and incentivise bringing disagreements to the courts rather than resolving them through political means. As the recent continuity Bill Supreme Court case demonstrated, litigation of this kind can be lengthy and complicated, undermining the fundamental purpose of this Bill, which is, I remind noble Lords, to maximise certainty and continuity of trading arrangements.

Thirdly, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, noted, the Sewel convention, which our commitment is modelled on, has served this country well. That convention is not legally binding, so the noble Lord must agree that it is not necessary for a commitment to be enforced in statute for it to provide reassurance to the devolved Administrations and to your Lordships’ House.

We have already begun to fulfil some of the commitments we made to the devolved Administrations during the passage of the previous Bill. For example, in relation to trade remedies, we have begun notifying

the devolved Administrations of the transition reviews undertaken by the Trade Remedies Investigations Directorate, which will be carrying out the functions of the Trade Remedies Authority until it is established by the Bill. This has allowed the devolved Administrations to consider becoming a contributor to these investigations and to submit information to the review.

In answer to a question raised by my noble friend Lady McIntosh, who asked how the UK Government are working with the devolved Administrations to prepare for the end of the transition period, our work on trade remedies demonstrates that the UK Government are ensuring that all parts of the UK are ready for the end of the transition period. The Department for International Trade has also been working closely with the devolved Administrations to ensure continuity of trade for the whole of the UK for the end of this period. The Bill is an essential part of those preparations, and we have already begun to discuss with the devolved Administrations what regulations may be required in their areas to implement the continuity agreements which are within the scope of the Bill.

I cannot support Amendments 61 and 62 for similar reasons to those which I have just discussed. As mentioned, international trade is a reserved matter under the devolution settlements, and it is ultimately for the UK Parliament to scrutinise the Government’s treaty making. The negotiation of international treaties is also a prerogative power of the UK Government. This rule is not only the result of centuries of constitutional practice but serves an important function: it enables the UK to speak clearly, with a single voice, as a unitary actor under international law. These amendments would, therefore, not only undermine the important constitutional principle that international trade is a reserved matter but also weaken the UK’s negotiating positions.

On Amendments 50 and 76, as the Minister of State for Trade Policy said in the other place, we share the principle behind these amendments and absolutely recognise that, as modern FTAs cover areas of devolved competence, the devolved Administrations have a legitimate interest in our agreements. However, the arrangement that the amendments propose is already in place. Noble Lords may recall that, during the passage of the previous Trade Bill, the previous International Trade Secretary committed to establishing a new ministerial forum for trade with the devolved Administrations. I am pleased to tell your Lordships that this forum is now well established. It had its inaugural meeting in January and has met twice since then to discuss key areas, such as our objectives for the US and Japan free trade agreements.

The forum is chaired by the Minister of State for Trade Policy, who has built strong working relationships with all of his counterparts in the devolved Administrations. In addition to this formal engagement, the Minister also has bilateral and ad hoc engagement with his counterparts to reflect the sometimes fast-paced nature of trade negotiations. The department has also established regular engagement at official level on the technical detail of our trade policy, overseen by the six-weekly senior officials group. This engagement is not merely consultation but genuine co-operation between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations

to ensure that there is delivery for every part of the UK. We have seen the result of that in the recent agreement with Japan.

For example, the department listened to calls from the devolved Administrations about the importance of geographical indications, and the agreement therefore creates the potential of new protection for more iconic goods from the devolved nations, such as Welsh lamb and Scotch beef. I know that the noble Lords, Lord Wigley and Lord Purvis, have on previous occasions emphasised the importance of geographical indications, and I hope that this shows that the views of this House are also being reflected in our agreements. We will continue to work closely with the devolved Administrations on our agreements with Australia, New Zealand and the United States to ensure that their views are also reflected in those agreements.

It is not just the UK Government who think that these arrangements provide the devolved Administrations with a significant voice in our trade policy. Before I make my concluding remarks—and this may interest the noble Lord, Lord Wigley—I will refute the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, on our relationship with the devolved Administrations. In evidence to the Welsh Parliament, the Welsh Government’s Minister for International Relations, the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, said of their involvement in our trade negotiations:

“We’ve not only fed in, but we’ve actually seen the results of us feeding in, and so I think we’ve got to pay respect to the UK Government in this space, and I’m really pleased to see that that is happening.”

To answer a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, who spoke about trust, much work is being done and I believe that the trust is not in doubt. As the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, put it, we are a family of nations.

I have some final questions to answer. The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, raised a point about failing to work in partnership with the devolved Administrations. However, the establishment of the new forum for trade and the statement of the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, which I have just read out, show that the UK Government have been working in partnership, I believe effectively, with all the devolved Administrations.

The noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, asked what involvement the Northern Ireland Executive had in our recent success on the Japan FTA. Let me say that all devolved Administrations receive the same level of engagement, and the noble Baroness should know that we engaged regularly and meaningfully with the Northern Ireland Executive on that deal. I am pleased to be able to reassure her on that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, asked whether Northern Ireland will be included in our trade agreements. I can say to her that, in regular meetings with the Northern Ireland Executive’s Minister for the Economy, Diane Dodds, my colleagues, including the Minister of State for Trade Policy, have reaffirmed the UK’s guarantee in its Command Paper on the implementation of the protocol, established in May, that it will negotiate and deliver trade deals on behalf of all parts of the UK, including Northern Ireland.

The UK Government have worked hard to ensure that the devolved Administrations’ views are reflected in this Bill—I hope that I have put that strong argument to this Committee today—and we have made a number of amendments and commitments to address their concerns. I hope that this provides more than enough reassurance to noble Lords, and I ask that the amendment be withdrawn.

Type
Proceeding contribution
Reference
806 cc221-7GC 
Session
2019-21
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
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