My Lords, I will primarily address Amendment 10, to which I have put my name, and then Amendment 7. In doing so, I will reflect on a couple of very good points made by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, and other noble Lords during this short but useful debate. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, that this debate frames the context for many of the later groups.
There is now no disagreement between the Government and the Opposition that trade agreements are now, by definition, deeper and more comprehensive than they were before we joined the European Union. The transformation of trade agreements from the mid-1970s to now has been significant. They touch on wide domestic policy, far beyond simply tariff rates or quotas for goods. Many will now include provisions on the service-sector economy, which trade agreements never touched on in the past. Therefore, seemingly innocuous technicalities in a trade agreement can sometimes have far-reaching consequences for domestic policy. Later on, the Committee will address additional chapters on climate, development and human rights that never used to exist in trade agreements. In the last group, the Minister referred to impacts on modern slavery and supply chains. These are now all within wider, deeper and more comprehensive trade agreements. It is also the case—admitted by the Government—that trade agreements in the UK in the
21st century impact on the devolution settlements that did not even exist before we joined the European Union. Therefore, there are wider consequences, and the Committee will be discussing those later.
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I am not sure I am convinced that the CRaG process is necessarily long-standing. It is an update to the way that the prerogative powers were used within Parliament over the last decade or so, but it certainly cannot be used as an example or model from which to approach treaties across the board or other treaties that may be small in nature. Just two weeks ago, noble Lords in Grand Committee discussed three Select Committee reports which looked at whether our procedures need to be updated. There was consensus that they do; the difference was on how.
I understand the argument of the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, on whether this amendment would, in effect, allow reduced scrutiny or power for Parliament over CRaG, but I do not agree. The mechanisms restricting the order-making powers in the Bill and the restrictions that we would like to see further on in the Bill would mean that there is a framework that goes beyond the CRaG process. Indeed, a treaty under CRaG is, in effect, an SI anyway. As the noble Lord knows, this House cannot prevent an SI under a CRaG process, as a treaty, from getting on to the statute book if we have a significant disagreement with it. Under other elements of regulations, we have greater power. The regulations under the Bill and those we are proposing have a wider degree of consultation and a stronger set of ways in which we can look at a proposal, before it is even tabled for support under the CRaG process. As the noble Lord said, we will be discussing that later, when those disagreements will be fleshed out. I hope that he does not feel that is an inhibiting factor at this stage.
I recall the debate in which the Minister’s predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady, Fairhead, indicated that, under the Government’s proposals, a new trade agreement would be brought through primary legislation. I hope the Minister can clarify, because my recollection is slightly different from the noble Lord’s. My recollection is that the Government said that, where there is no existing legislation, they would bring forward legislation to implement. At the time, I thought that was no different from the dualist system that we have already. If the noble Lord is interpreting too much from what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Fairhead, at the time, I hope the Minister can clarify. If my recollection is correct and the Government are simply committed to bringing legislation to implement a treaty that is not on the statute book, we are back to square one, which is why we need some of these elements within the debate.
My second point is on the need for some examples from the Government of how they would use some of these regulation powers. I hope that the Government can clarify this, as has been asked for in this debate. The House of Lords Library Note was very helpful. We know that, under the Government’s proposals, the Government are restricted to bringing regulations for those trade agreements that were signed before we left the European Union. As the Lords Library Note
helpfully suggests, there is need for clarity when it comes to mutual recognition agreements. It notes that we have mutual recognition agreements with the United States. The Bill cannot be used to implement a new FTA with the United States, but the Lords Library Note suggests that regulations
“could be used to implement a mutual recognition agreement with the US.”
I wonder if the Minister could clarify that point.
Finally, it was helpful to receive both a grammar lesson from the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and an insight into the mind of a Minister from the noble Lord, Lord Lansley. On this, I am on the side of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, and the Law Society of Scotland. I hope the noble Lord does not mind, but I will stick with the Scottish lawyers on this one. The argument that was made was that necessity is a stronger test, whereas “appropriate” can be used and does not necessarily mean that other non-legislative remedies can be sought by the Government. Therefore, the clarity that the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has asked for from the Minister would be helpful. It is necessary for the Minister to clarify how the Government define “appropriate”.