My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken on automaticity. It has been a very interesting debate. I am particularly grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord Grocott, for tabling the amendments that have helped us have this debate.
I need not remind the Committee of the shape and purpose of the amendments—it is well aware of those. It has been explicitly stated that the amendments seek to retain the present position where Parliament can intervene and frustrate the intention of the Government and, indeed, the intention of the House of Commons, as resolved on examination of this legislation, to go for automaticity.
I note that most noble Lords who spoke against the proposals were from the Opposition. I was not persuaded by many of the reasons that they put forward. I note and welcome the support of the Liberal Democrats who spoke in favour of automaticity, although I note—as I was asked to by the noble Lord, Lord Rennard—that this is conditional. They support this principle now, but they might change their minds by Report. I will be interested to understand how they turn on its head the fundamental principle that there should not be political interference with the electoral process. I hope—I am sure—that they will continue to support the principle of automaticity.
Noble Lords have raised other important issues in this debate, some of which we will discuss later today and some on subsequent occasions. I assure the Committee that I will be listening carefully to all the points that come forward.
I support the principle of automaticity. I hope it is recognised that I am a staunch supporter of Parliament and its role—and your Lordships’ role—in scrutinising and agreeing the laws by which we live. I suppose my gut instinct is that Parliament gives up so much. Some have said, “Is it not a good thing that Parliament should be involved?”, that we parliamentarians always have a right to reject. While it perhaps goes against my instinctive grain to let go of that opportunity, in this instance I believe that we should not follow those instincts and that there is more to be gained for the citizen by us letting go, as was movingly expounded by my noble friend Lady Seccombe.
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Boundary reviews exist for one purpose: to ensure that electors are fairly represented in our democratic system and in this Parliament. When electors cast their votes at a general election, it is the boundary review that ensures that those votes carry the same weight. When those electors seek the support or advice of their MPs—the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, was interesting on this—it is the boundary review that ensures that the access they have is fair and reasonable. With an enormous constituency it is harder to give such a good service, as the noble Lord said.
Without regular boundary reviews that come to full fruition, the citizen cannot have confidence that their vote is equal and their representation fair. That is the purpose of this Government. There has been a lot of suspicion expressed about the Executive. The aim of the Government is to take politics out of it and ensure that the system is fair and above political interference. The current affirmative parliamentary procedure allows for interference. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said there was no evidence of any problem that needed solving. My noble friend Lord Hayward, among others, referred to the case in 1969, when Mr Callaghan attempted to bring in new legislation to suspend the alteration to constituencies proposed by the Boundary Commissions. That met opposition in your Lordships’ House. It was lost. The orders were laid before the Commons on 12 November 1969, but the Government moved that they be not moved—a notorious case of political interference. Noble Lords have referred to other, more recent occasions and have alleged different forms of interference by different parties in different ways. I believe that this is a sensible step. It puts parliamentarians—and, I hope, the Government—beyond temptation. I hope that it will also deliver a system where the citizen will no longer suffer from outdated boundaries, unequal votes and public funds spent on reviews that do not see the light of day.
I agree with much of the powerful speech by my noble friend Lord Hayward, who has great experience in these matters. The truth is that we have excellent and independent Boundary Commissions, which work according to robust, thorough and consultative processes. We want to keep it that way. I know your Lordships wish to discuss that issue later. The Boundary Commissions’
record is of careful work. There is nothing slapdash about it. It is painstaking and fully framed by primary legislation that Parliament will always be able to decide.
Reference was made by the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, and others, to changing the number of MPs and whether that might be possible. As my noble friend Lord Hayward pointed out, that would require primary legislation. The noble Lord, Lord Grocott, and others asked whether maintaining the 650 as now was the settled intention of the Government. It is the settled intention of the Government, which is why this legislation has been presented. People spoke of a U-turn. It was not always comfortable. Earlier in the 2010s we had a coalition Government and now we have a Conservative Government presenting this legislation and intending to stand by this number.
Since the coalition Government decided on the reduction to 600, our population has grown, we have left the European Union, and significant areas of policy-making and lawmaking are coming back to all the legislatures of the union, including this Parliament. It is widely agreed in those circumstances that the Bill’s provision for retaining 650 constituencies is right.
The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, referred to gerrymandering and the risk of executive power—“We don’t trust this Government”, et cetera. I am always sad when people say that. I like to believe that we in your Lordships’ House trust each other and the words we put across in debate. But it is the Government’s contention that this provision actually safeguards the independence of the process.
My noble friend Lord Hayward reminded us again that there is nothing unusual about this internationally. He did indeed come up to me after Second Reading to point out the other great nation—apart from Australia, Canada and New Zealand—which has this policy and has no difficulty with it.
I hope that, on reflection, the great Labour Party, which has always fought for the equality of the common man, will come to join us—and, at least temporarily, the Liberal Democrats who have spoken—in believing that this temptation should be taken away from the sticky hands of politicians and the process given to the Boundary Commission. We learned today the word—some of us have been rude about it but now we must all be polite about it—“automaticity”, invented by my noble friend Lord Hayward. Let no one ever again criticise that new word.
There are issues we will discuss in later amendments —as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, legitimately said at the start, there are issues we need to worry at on the Bill—but I hope that on the broad principle I have been able to persuade the Committee that this is a sensible constitutional reform. Indeed it is, as was said by two of the noble Lords who spoke. In conclusion, I remind the Committee of the words of our own Constitution Committee:
“The removal of Parliament’s power to block … is constitutionally appropriate and therefore welcome.”
In that light, I urge the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.