My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for what again has been an interesting debate which has taken us into a range of issues. I shall begin with Amendment 2 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Addington, Amendments 3, 10, 15, 20, 23, 30, 64 and 85 from the noble Earl, Lord Devon, Amendment 65 from my noble friend Lady McIntosh and Amendment 94 from the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, all of which deal with eligibility for financial assistance.
This is of course the Agriculture Bill, and the powers it contains have been designed with agriculture in mind. Schemes are overwhelmingly designed to work for farmers and land managers, and we intend that they will reap the benefits of providing public goods across agriculture, forestry and horticulture. Farmers will, and indeed must, be at the very heart of future schemes, as I have said before.
I say to the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, that, yes, we want to avoid bureaucracy, but one of the reasons to have these tests and trials across the nation is so that almost all the ranges of what is in Clause 1 are tested, so that we can come forward with a national rollout which we think will be dynamic and work for farmers.
The ELM scheme will pay farmers, foresters and other land managers to deliver environmental public goods identified in the Government’s 25-year environment plan. About 70% of land in England is farmed so, as stewards of our land, farmers will play an essential role in this. That is why tier 1 of the ELM scheme will focus on supporting farmers to farm their land in an environmentally sustainable way. Other schemes, such as those aiming to improve animal health and welfare, will focus on supporting livestock farmers. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, used a word which is important in all of what we have to do: “balance”.
One of the areas where a number of noble Lords have taken contrary views is on assigning this just for, say, agricultural land. My noble friend the Duke of Montrose was right to highlight some of the issues and complexities, as did my noble friends Lord Randall of Uxbridge and Lord Trenchard and the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone. Woodland, rivers and wetlands, among many others, may well be able to deliver important public goods. This is an issue that we need to think through. When we try to be so precise, we might end up missing out if we were to accept some of these
amendments. I am very glad that the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, mentioned the restoration of peatland. Many of these features will be managed by farmers on their land, but if we define it as just agricultural land, are we in difficulties about woodland, rivers and wetlands, all of which make a major contribution on one’s farm to how one can enhance the environment? Restricting eligibility to those managing land for agriculture, horticulture or forestry would mean that we risk missing out the important benefits that can be gained when land managers work together. For example, we would not wish for all those managing land in a particular river catchment to lose out on the possibility of joining a scheme just because one parcel of land in the catchment was not agricultural.
I am very mindful of what the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and my noble friend Lord De Mauley said about native breeds. The Government are currently developing the details of the ELM scheme with stakeholders, including eligibility criteria. The ELM discussion document was reopened on 24 June. The Government’s view is that the Bill as drafted strikes the right balance between affirming the Government’s support to fund farmers, foresters and land managers under future schemes and providing a helpful degree of flexibility in designing future schemes.
There was a very interesting discussion about well-being. We had important contributions. Clause 1 could be used to contribute to the delivery of societal benefits, including engagement with the environment. The ELM could fund the creation of new paths, such as footpaths and bridleways, and could support access to water and waterways, such as lakes and rivers, which allow for—yes—enjoyment of the countryside. I have a bit to do with this very important area, particularly in relation to loneliness: I represent Defra on the ministerial task force on that. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, also mentioned social prescribing, health and well-being. Defra and the DHSC, working jointly, are bidding, through the shared outcomes fund, to develop a mental health project to support scaling up nature-based preventive and therapeutic interventions, working with PHE, NHS England, the MHCLG and Natural England. I am genuinely interested in how we craft the Bill. We think that “enjoyment” covers all that would be required. If a farmer was going to engage with something like social prescribing or health and well-being, then that is part of environmental enhancement. I am not promising anything, but I am interested in a conversation on how we encompass all this. With what the nation is going through with this crisis, the Government place great importance on this area for health, well-being, mental health and social prescribing.
I turn to Amendment 106, in the name of my noble friend Lady McIntosh. It was great to see the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, even if it was only on the screen. The Government recognise that schemes should, of course, be available to tenant farmers. It is the Government’s intention that the ELM scheme will provide funding to those carrying out the management of the land or water to deliver the environmental public goods. My noble friend Lord Inglewood, an experienced land manager, spoke wise words when he referred to the
range of issues. The Government are engaging with a wide range of different types of farmer and land manager, including tenant farmers, to inform the development of ELM and to understand and address any particular issues, including in relation to tenant farmers, to which my noble friend Lady McIntosh’s amendment refers.
In response to the noble Earl, Lord Devon, I say that the Government are designing future financial schemes to be accessible to as many farmers and land managers as possible, including those who work on common land.
I turn to amendments which deal with conditions placed on recipients of financial assistance. I reassure my noble friend Lady McIntosh that the Government recognise the importance of the issues listed in her Amendment 103 and are committed to supporting their delivery, both through schemes that will be delivered under Clause 1—I will not go through the list of what they are—and wider government initiatives. On the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, I say that we already have robust domestic regulatory protections in place that require all farmers and land managers, irrespective of whether they receive financial assistance or not, to meet stringent standards. I was interested in what the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, said. These rules include the farming rules for water, which protect against water pollution, and the welfare of farmed animals regulations, which protect farm livestock, a point that the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, referred to. These protections will continue.
The Government are reviewing, in partnership with industry, where we can make improvements to our regulatory regime. There will be some areas where the Government will raise standards. As announced in the clean air strategy, the Government will require and support farmers to take more action to reduce ammonia emissions, for example. Where appropriate, we will look to provide greater scope to remedy underperformance before sanctions are applied. The Government agree with Dame Glenys Stacey that advice has an important role in an effective regulatory system.
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As Minister for Rural Affairs, rural-proofing is an issue I place the utmost importance on. My noble friends Lord Marlesford and Lady McIntosh, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, raised it. The Government are committed to rural-proofing all policies, which involves looking at how best to achieve policy outcomes while taking account of the particular needs and challenges of rural communities. There is a network of rural-proofing leads from all main departments.
I am particularly mindful of the experiences of my noble friend Lord Inglewood and the point my noble friend Lord Marlesford raised. The Government are taking steps to ensure that rural communities can continue to thrive. For example, through the “outside in” approach as part of the future telecoms infrastructure review, we are supporting the deployment of gigabit-capable broadband to the least commercially viable UK premises. That means that those in the hardest-to-reach rural areas will not be left behind. Through the Rural Connected Communities competition the
Government are funding up to 10 5G research and development projects to run over two years. At a different scale, the funds that have been made available to village halls are also a tremendously important part of the direction of travel we wish to take.
I emphasise once again that the Government have a clear ambition to leave the environment in a better state than we found it. We will work closely in partnership with land managers to achieve these outcomes by encouraging them to adopt holistic approaches to the delivery of multiple public goods across their land.
On Amendments 108 to 110 in the name of my noble friend Lord Lucas, I will first discuss the role of evidence and risk in the development of our financial assistance schemes and conditions. The Government are taking a science-led approach to many of the ELM scheme conditions. The scientific evidence on the extent to which different land management activities deliver environmental benefits will inform what the scheme will pay for. For the purpose of improving productivity, conditions may be attached to the provision of financial assistance for a number of different reasons. Conditions might, for example, be used to derive additional public or private benefits from the funding.
On the amendment on local and individual variation, this is also being considered in the ELM scheme conditions. For example, tier 1 of ELMS aims to support environmentally sustainable farming across the country. This tier aims to support actions that the majority of farmers will be able to take, but the Government are also considering how these actions may differ across different regions and different farm types. Tiers 2 and 3 are intended to deliver environmental outcomes that are targeted to their location so the land management activities paid for under these tiers will take into account local variations, which could include the environmental improvements a local area may need, the actions that can have the most success in a particular area, and the natural capital assets that already exist in that area.
On the amendment on soil management practices, Clause 1 allows financial assistance to be given for protecting and improving the quality of soil, which we will discuss in more detail in a later group.
The Government recognise the importance of the issues raised in these amendments and have sought to address them in their schemes and in the Bill itself. However, if additional conditions are placed on the receipt of financial assistance, we run the risk of those wishing to apply being put off by the added bureaucracy. Clear guidance to farmers and land managers is of the highest importance and the Government would not want take-up to be reduced due to schemes being overly complex.
I will reply to Amendment 113 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, and Amendment 114 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, because it would be a decent thing to do. Clause 2 enables the Secretary of State to delegate discretionary aspects of a scheme; for example, the assessment of how well applicants meet funding criteria, where specialist knowledge is a required condition. The Government wish to ensure that there is flexibility in the system to
encourage innovative and collaborative approaches to delivering public goods in a way that works for participants and to achieve the Government’s objectives. As drafted, Clause 2 allows the Government to look beyond the current scope of bodies such as Natural England and the Rural Payments Agency and to draw on the expertise that exists in other organisations. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and my noble friend Lord Trenchard that any organisation would of course be accountable for public funding they received using well-established practices for the spending of public money.
Amendment 116, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and Amendment 115, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Addington, have somewhat conflicting intentions. The Government are determining what information about recipients of funding should be published under regulations made under Clause 2; for example, whether to include the amount of funding received and the purpose for which funding has been given. There may be some areas where the publication of conditions applicable to individual recipients would not be appropriate.
I reassure noble Lords that the Government intend to provide ample protection to individuals who would receive public funds under this chapter. Clause 46 ensures that Clause 2 powers to publish information cannot be exercised in a way that contravenes data protection legislation, including the general data protection regulation—GDPR—as defined by the Data Protection Act 2018. The GDPR requires that information published under this chapter must be adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which it is processed.
I can tell the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, that Defra intends to undertake a consultation exercise with stakeholders later this month, giving them an opportunity to share their views on what information should be published. Defra will then take these views into account when drafting the regulations under Clause 2, which will be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure.
On Amendments 118 and 121, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, I start by saying that, in all that we are doing, it is absolutely essential that we ensure that taxpayers’ money is properly spent. In relation to the noble Baroness’s first amendment, I have already noted in reference to Clause 1 that the use of “may” is consistent with other legislation. To use “must” here could lead to unintended consequences, such as the drafting of unnecessary regulations.
In relation to the noble Baroness’s second amendment, and on a point that she and the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, raised, the Government are engaging with stakeholders on these regulations. Defra is undertaking a consultation exercise with key external stakeholders to ensure that their thoughts and concerns are taken into account when deciding the policy to be adopted.
To the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, and the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, I say that the Government already have a robust regulatory regime and are committed to maintaining and improving environmental standards.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, asked about eligibility for financial assistance. I can give him a policy answer and a legal answer. Anyone who provides any of the Clause 1 purposes will be eligible. Beneficiaries include, but are not limited to, farmers, foresters, horticulturalists and those managing the land. From a policy point of view, I emphasise that the schemes are overwhelmingly designed to support farmers and land managers. As I have said, farmers must be, and will be, at the heart of the schemes.
The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, again made the important point about work with the devolved Administrations and considerations on eligibility. Defra Ministers and Ministers in the devolved Administrations have regular discussions; for example, at an almost monthly inter-ministerial group meeting. Ministers discuss a range of agricultural issues, but it is worth remembering that agriculture is a devolved matter and, outside of the EU, each UK Administration will have flexibility to develop agricultural policies suited to their unique circumstances. I am very pleased to be able to tell the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, that Defra and Welsh Government officials are having early discussions on, for instance, scheme design. It is about a balance between propriety—this is a devolved matter—and the importance of working collaboratively.
I also wanted to speak about the overarching principles for inspecting and enforcing financial scheme conditions. The key principles of design for compliance monitoring and enforcement will be proportionality, simplicity and transparency, ensuring correct use of public money while improving the delivery of outcomes. I absolutely accept—and this is why transparency is so important—that, for activities funded by the public purse, it clearly protects public money and ensures that recipients of public money are subject to a degree of accountability.
There has been a range of very interesting issues, and I will again look at Hansard and want to continue to have discussions about any residual points, which I very much welcome hearing. I hope I have addressed the larger issues, particularly the point that, yes, this overwhelmingly concerns farmers, land managers and those involved in that area, but—bearing in mind the points that other noble Lords have made, whether about water or woodland—it goes beyond that. This is particularly the case when you get to tiers 2 and 3, but also tier 1, where you have an individual farm that may have wetlands, watercourses and ditches. The whole farm, I think, should be looked at in that way.
However, when you get to tiers 2 and 3 and you are looking at a much broader landscape area, it is important to say that these points about balance and flexibility are to make sure that we actually ensure, in the end, that the farmer and the land manager play their part in what we are all seeking to do, which is to achieve the 25-year environment plan.
With all of that, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Addington, will feel able to withdraw his amendment.