My Lords, I thank both noble Lords who speak on these issues on behalf of their parties. I thank them for their general approach, which is consistently responsible and, at the same time, questions aspects of the policy, which I fully understand.
I will deal first with the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley. One thing that the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and I have in common is that we always want these things to happen more quickly than appears deliverable. I understand, therefore, where the noble Lord is coming from when he talks about how long these things sometimes appear to take. We have touched on the fact that both noble Lords carry out visits to communities at the sharp end to see what is necessary, and similarly I have been to Sheffield and Luton and seen some of the problems that exist there, which are by no means unique. Tomorrow, I am in Leeds and Hull, and on Friday I will be in Bradford, and I expect to get similar messages there.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for what he said about the broader definition of HMOs that we have already brought in to take into account properties of three storeys and below. As a Government and as a country we have to be fleet of foot to change our
definition in the light of new circumstances so that, as he said, things do not go under the radar. I accept that 6.51 square metres is relatively small, but, my gosh, he and I know that it is a massive improvement on some of the things that are happening now. As he rightly said, we must make sure that we focus on enforcement to make sure that these and other regulations are properly enforced.
The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked whether the 18-month period is appropriate. When I saw it, I also thought it seemed to be a long time. However, one needs to remember that this is not, primarily, to protect landlords. If anything, it is to protect tenants, some of whom I accept are currently sleeping in a space that is too small. However, we do not want those tenants to be forced out by a landlord saying that he has to do so because it is the law. The transitional period takes into account landlords to a degree, but, much more so, tenants as well as local authorities. Probably, 18 months is about the right period.
The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, mentioned Newham Council, which I know does much good work. I will, when possible, visit Newham to see what is happening there. He made the justifiable point that this issue has far-reaching implications for mental health, a point which, I must confess, I had not homed in on. He is absolutely right. In a sense, I lived in a HMO as a student, but that is a very different experience from living in a HMO as an adult, particularly with children, and I understand what the noble Lord is getting at. It is not a desirable position in many situations. It may be appropriate for people on a transitional basis but it is not how most people would opt to live; I fully accept that. However, given that some people are in that position, we have to make sure that there are appropriate regulations.
I thank again the noble Lords for their comments and for their general support. I commend these regulations to the Committee.