My Lords, John Major once gave some wise advice to the Conservative Party after it had been in office for nearly 18 years. He said, “Always remember that one day we will have to take the Conservative Party into opposition”. I always
think it is rather reckless of a Government to legislate with the assumption that they will always be in power and that the powers they are giving themselves will always be used in the benign way that they intend.
I am pleased to follow the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham. When I first came into this House, his father used to sit in the same seat. One of his more unnerving habits was to keep up a running commentary on speakers in a not so sotto voice. But the noble Viscount is quite right: 40 years ago in the Dimbleby lecture, his father warned precisely against an elective dictatorship—a Government with a majority in the Commons who could force through various Acts that would not be suitable in a parliamentary democracy.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, has done a great service to Parliament by challenging the Henry VIII clauses that are coming like a great flotilla down the channel towards us in the legislation that the Government have in mind.
I make only one plea, and not just to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad; I am pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Young, is on the Front Bench as well. He is somebody with the parliamentary experience to tell No. 10 that it must think of a different way of dealing with this kind of legislation. Up with this the House will not put—I think I put that in the Churchillian way. Anyway, it will not. The Government must think again and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and others have offered to help them.
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I have some sympathy for the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad. I, too, have been on a sticky wicket and I, too, have felt that terrible tingling at the back of my spine when the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, rises to his feet to “clarify” what you are trying to say. The only trouble is that he clarifies it in such a way that you know that you are doomed.
I also ask the Minister to read today’s Hansard. In his intervention, the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, hit the bull’s-eye when he said that this was not a party-political issue but one of concern to parliamentarians across the House. The Government must accept that Henry VIII clauses have no place in the legislation they are trying to pass. It is no use them saying, “Well, if we can’t do it this way, we won’t listen to the House and the legislation will be weak and it will be the House’s fault”. No, it will not. The House will not accept legislation with these dangers in it and, with all the wisdom it can provide, it is offering help to the Government to try to get an answer.
I do not know what the intentions of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, are but, whatever the outcome of this debate, I hope that the Minister will not consider it a win. Earlier tonight an amendment was passed by a majority of 80—even though the Government won the next Division by 11 votes. That was an opinion from the House of Lords and a sensible Minister and a sensible Whip will find a chance not to divide the Hagain but to take this back, think again and tell No. 10 that it cannot get this kind of legislation through. That would be a great service that the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Young, could do for the House tonight.