I thank my noble friend for her intervention. Perhaps I am not making it clear that it is not necessarily one person who will be able to give guidance and advice in one session. The point, notwithstanding that it is becoming one body, is that we do not expect a situation in which someone receives all that information from one individual. When someone is in problem debt, for example, and worried about bailiffs, the initial outcome of the debt advice session has to be on stabilising the situation. That may be
followed with more in-depth support to understand the root causes of the debt problem and how to address them. It may involve bringing in people who have different types of expertise, depending on the person’s needs. We do not expect that because it is one body—bringing three bodies together—it will necessarily be the same person in one session who gives advice and guidance. As I have learned this summer through visiting these bodies, different people have different kinds of expertise. We want it to be as seamless as possible and provide a more seamless customer journey, but it will not be perfect, given that advice is regulated and guidance is not. However, as there is time pressure on your Lordships’ House, I shall take this issue away and talk again with my noble friend, and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and others to see if we can find a solution to it.
As I was saying, in my experience of talking to those dealing with this matter on a day-to-day basis, they have every expectation that the new body will be able to cope perfectly well with the definitions as they are. As noble Lords will see from the note that we sent out this morning, there could be some serious confusion and regulatory issues if we changed definitions, so we have to take that into account as well. So it is a tough one.
These processes are robust, and we will ensure to the best of our ability that they are carried forward to the equivalent services offered by the new body. In fact, as I said, the Pensions Advisory Service has not received a complaint from a customer that he or she has received regulated advice. We have to make sure that processes are in place to protect consumers who might take guidance for advice in this new body. Those objectives are not specific requirements to do X, Y or Z, but broad, overarching principles and aims to which the body must have regard while exercising its functions. The objectives guide the body in the exercise of its functions; they should not provide a to-do list for the body.
Amendment 34 would alter the wording of the Bill to add a new objective that would require the new body to signpost appropriately to each of the body’s functions if people need multiple kinds of help. As I have said, the Government agree with the intent behind this amendment. We recognise that members of the public will have overlapping issues which require a mix of advice and guidance relating to debt, money and pensions. The body will be well placed to deliver this seamless service, including through warm handovers and signposting to the different functions it offers. This will be central to ensuring that members of the public receive the personalised, holistic support they need. It is important to remember that one of the key aims of bringing together the functions of the Money Advice Service, the Pensions Advisory Service, and Pension Wise is to improve the co-ordination of these services.
However, while we agree with the sentiment of the amendment, I do not think that it is required. I have already explained the purpose of the statutory objectives and we expect the body to signpost members of the public to the most appropriate source of help in order to provide a joined-up and holistic service. Having met
some of these wonderfully skilled people who have many years of experience in the financial services industry and already operate in this sphere, I can only assume—because of their brilliant expertise and the way that they handle the public and the advice and guidance that they are able to offer—that they will achieve this. The current objectives enable the body to do just that. Indeed, for the reasons given, I believe that Amendment 34 is, with respect, rather narrow and inappropriate to include within the broader objectives specified within the primary legislation.
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I turn now to Amendment 36, which would expand on the final objective, in Clause 2(8)(e), to require the new body to work with the financial services industry, the charitable sector and the voluntary sector when exercising its pensions, money and debt functions. Once again, the Government agree with the sentiment behind this amendment. It will be vital for the new body to work with a range of parties when exercising its functions, and the Government are keen for it to work collaboratively with relevant stakeholders including the charitable sector to ensure that members of the public receive the help that they need. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, it is very important that it is collaborative.
However, I do not believe that this amendment is necessary. The body will work with other organisations on a regular basis, and will not only consult with others on its annual business plan but will work through others when commissioning. In addition, the spirit behind the amendment is captured elsewhere in the Bill. In particular, the body’s strategic function places a requirement on it to engage with the financial services industry and voluntary sectors. The aim of this function is to ensure that individual efforts to improve financial capability and tackle problem debt become more than the sum of their parts. The strategy will aim to better identify the issues that people face and where there are gaps in provision; to develop evidence-based solutions; and to ensure that the sector’s resources are used in a co-ordinated and effective way.
Noble Lords have heard my response to Amendment 36 and I take this opportunity to explain why the Government have chosen to place a specific requirement on the body to work with the devolved authorities beyond the requirements of the strategic function. The devolved authorities will have their own priorities for their populations and, as such, it is necessary that the new body works with them to ensure that different services continue to fit together. It is for this reason that the objective in subsection (8)(e) places a requirement to work with Scottish Ministers, Welsh Ministers and the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland. As noble Lords know—and have said—responsibility for administration of funds for debt advice will lie in the hands of the devolved authorities when the body is operational. This is a deliberate departure from current practice and creates an opportunity for the devolved authorities to align debt advice provision with other locally administered guidance and advice services. The Department for Communities in Northern Ireland, for instance, currently delivers guidance on housing, mortgage debt advice and welfare reform, while the
Scottish Government were recently given responsibility for the delivery of consumer advice and advocacy relating to post, electricity, product standards and oil and gas.
Given the administrative change to the delivery of debt advice, we believe that it is especially important that the new body works closely with the devolved authorities in forthcoming years. Close collaboration will enable the exchange of knowledge and will help to ensure that information and examples of good practice are shared across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. While there are differences across the nations, there are also similarities in the problems faced by members of the public when managing their finances and, as a result, many of the lessons that will be learned by the new body will therefore apply across the United Kingdom. It is for this reason that we have explicitly legislated to encourage a collaborative working relationship across the nations, placing an additional requirement in the new body’s objectives beyond the strategic function.
I turn lastly to Amendment 37, which would require the Secretary of State to undertake periodic reviews of the single financial guidance body to determine its effectiveness in Scotland and Northern Ireland. I do not believe that this amendment is necessary. The body will provide a UK-wide service for pensions and money guidance on the basis of common objectives and standards. It will also liaise with the devolved authorities on the provision of debt advice. Like any other body providing services to the public, monitoring the effectiveness of its service wherever it is delivered will be a routine, good-governance activity. The body’s board will want assurance that the services provided to the public are effective. The effectiveness of its services will be integral to the assessment of the body’s performance. As part of its regular accountability reviews with the chief executive, the DWP will require the body to provide assessments against key performance indicators, including how effective its services are in different regions of the UK. Following the end of the financial year, the body will produce an annual report which will cover the body’s activities in relation to its functions. The annual report will be laid in Parliament. I believe that the arrangements I have outlined will provide robust mechanisms for understanding the effectiveness of the body in meeting its objectives throughout the UK.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for these amendments and all noble Lords, particularly my noble friend, for their contributions to this debate. I hope that I have been clear that, while I understand the intention behind these amendments, the Government’s position is that they are unnecessary and may be overly prescriptive to enshrine in primary legislation. As such, I urge the noble Lord not to press Amendments 34, 36 and 37—I mean 33, 34, 36 and 37.