My Lords, I speak to Amendment 78 standing in my name and that of my noble and learned friend Lord Davidson of Glen Clova. The amendment provides for the establishment of a Joint Committee on welfare devolution that would oversee the transfer and implementation of the welfare and employment support powers transferred under the Bill. This cross-party committee would not only examine the transfer, implementation and operation of these powers; it would also be responsible for ensuring full co-operation, consultation and information-sharing between the UK Government, the Scottish Government and, crucially, the relevant local stakeholders. The committee would be established in a spirit of mutual co-operation and transparency. Those principles must lie at the heart of the devolution settlement and, indeed, are what I believe to be the cornerstones of any future intergovernmental discussions.
The creation of the committee would provide an important mechanism through which the Scottish people can engage with the devolution process, and the membership of the committee would make that clear. Before I get on to why I think such a committee is needed, let me first outline how we envisage such a committee working in practice.
The committee would be made up of 10 members, with equal representation from both the UK and Scottish Governments, including the Secretary of State, UK and Scottish Welfare Ministers—presumably the
noble Lord, Lord Freud—Back-Benchers from both Parliaments and representatives from Scottish local government. The committee would determine its own proceedings and, acting jointly, the Secretary of State and Scottish Ministers could appoint an advisory panel on welfare reform comprising academics, representatives from third-sector and voluntary organisations, and any other relevant stakeholders. Following the passing of this Bill, the committee would publish reports every three months for the first three years and annually thereafter. The aim is to provide a truly all-encompassing, all-inclusive process.
The very detailed debate that we have just had about welfare benefits and employment support highlights why such a committee is needed. The work of the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, is well known and has been demonstrated in the past 20 minutes or so, so the expertise is certainly there. A number of points were raised that show how such a committee could be of value. The amendments proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, recognise the importance of joined-up working, particularly on welfare. These are extremely complex issues, but I have no doubt that the committee would make a positive contribution during the transition of the welfare provisions, with experts from local government and voluntary organisations feeding into discussions. Indeed, the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations warmly welcomed this initiative, stating that it is a,
“pragmatic proposal given the need to ensure continuous, timely delivery of social security payments to those who receive them”.
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The more positive intergovernmental working that can be fostered is surely to the benefit of all parties involved, and will develop and strengthen the relationship between Scotland and the UK. The committee would be an extremely powerful symbol of the exactly the type of working that we should all want to promote; indeed, that broader issue is a powerful motivating factor behind the amendment. With the passing of the Bill, we will enter a new phase in the history of the United Kingdom and a new chapter for Scotland. We should use this as an opportunity to think creatively about how we work together and to renew our commitment to intergovernmental co-operation.
Noble Lords will be aware that we have been pursuing this sort of monitoring since the Bill was introduced in the other place, and since then it has not just been third-sector organisations that have advocated such engagement during the transitional process in the weeks, months and years ahead. I quote from the most recent report from the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, which stated:
“There is a clear risk that a system in which some benefits are devolved and some are reserved will create”—
or have a strong possibility of creating—
“confusion and uncertainty for those who depend on welfare support. Both governments must work together effectively to ensure that claimants are not disadvantaged by the process of transition from one system to another or by the interaction of those separate systems in the future, not least because those claiming multiple benefits are likely to be on the lowest incomes. The needs of those who rely on benefits should be at the heart of
the process of devolving spending powers to the Scottish Government. We expect to monitor progress in this area as part of our future work”.
So there is genuine concern as well as the positive contributions being made to this debate, and I believe that that statement from the Select Committee speaks directly to our amendment. I understand that the Government have yet to respond to the Select Committee report. Without pre-empting their response, does the Minister agree with the principle of this sort of co-operation, with particular regard to the welfare measures in the Bill? Are such preparations in place, or are discussions taking place to consider them? Are such processes or tools being considered, and who would carry them out?
The committee would bring together national and local representatives, politicians and voluntary organisations with the sole purpose of making the transition as effective, collegiate and positive as possible. I look forward to hearing the Government’s response, and I beg to move.