Scotland Bill

I rise to speak to Amendment 75A. I was in meetings in Glasgow this morning and came in during th...

I wonder if the noble Lord could help me. When he talks about setting a limit on borrowing, are w...

I have not the faintest idea.

Neither do I.

I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop, knows, but I do not think that any of the rest of us kno...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 76. The points made by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlocha...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 79F and 79G. I have in my hands substantial notes. They wer...

Till he found out what it meant.

Yes—that was, of course, part of the purpose of the article I wrote for the Herald, which the nob...

If I remember correctly, the Chancellor of the Exchequer appeared before the Treasury Committee i...

I fully accept what the noble Lord says; however I argue that there is room for argument as to wh...

My Lords, I wish to speak briefly to my Amendment 79H, which I hope provides a way out for my nob...

I hope the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, will forgive me for interrupting him. It sometimes happens t...

I do love the noble and learned Lord, Lord McCluskey, as a politician making these penetrating po...

My Lords, in the earlier procedural debate we touched on many of the issues regarding whether we ...

The noble Lord said that the Barnett formula works. I doubt that anyone would contradict that. It...

In relation to the Barnett formula, I chose my words carefully. I said that it worked; I did not ...

I support Amendment 76 but I have sympathy with all these amendments. I think the noble Lord, Lor...

It might be worth having a look at the committee report that was done on the Barnett formula, whi...

I certainly do not repudiate that point, but it is still worth acknowledging the fact because it ...

My Lords, I support Amendment 75A moved by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, on debt and borrowing. The ...

My Lords, I feel obliged to intervene for Wales for a moment, because there is a very solid Welsh...

My Lords, I support Amendments 76 and 79G. Like many other noble Lords, I have found much that is...

My Lords, I add support to my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness’s amendment in ...

My Lords, we have had a detailed debate with many authoritative contributions, and I welcome the ...

If there was migration from Scotland as a result of higher tax rates, clearly the population rati...

As I was saying, that is an indirect, or behavioural effect. It is not a direct effect: that is t...

Before my noble friend does that, will he actually answer the question? It was, how do you tell w...

One is a direct consequence of a policy decision, so in the example I gave of personal allowances...

I am most grateful to my noble friend. May we just take the example that he gave—that was raised ...

My noble friend misunderstands what I am saying. I am not necessarily saying that those should be...

Teasing this out, may I give an example that is hypothetical in one sense, because it is historic...

No, I do not believe that that would be a no detriment in the sense that the UK Government would ...

The Smith commission report says in paragraph 4a:

“Where either the UK or the Scottish Gove...

No; we are not departing from the Smith agreement at all. It is the function of the negotiations....

The noble Lord mentioned the issue of WILLIEs—people who work in London but live in Edinburgh. If...

As I said, as regards tax competition, that would not be counted for in terms of compensation. I ...

May I ask about a point on the language used by the Minister? He drew a distinction between direc...

As I said, the Smith agreement is a set of high-level principles. The negotiations are about how ...

Is that expression “high-level principle” a euphemism for low-level politics?

No; it is the responsibility of the two Governments to work out this package of powers and how th...

I am anxious to make time before the Minister moves on from this specific aspect of indirect detr...

No; we will not see disputes, because that is the process we are involved in at the moment, which...

Has the Minister looked at that bit of the Economic Affairs Committee report, where the committee...

We very much recognise what that report says, which is that if you interpret the no-detriment pri...

This is the point I was trying to get at before. The Minister has just said it; he may correct me...

I think we are reflecting at the outset that Scotland produces a lower proportion of total UK inc...

Can the Minister explain another point he raised? I am puzzled how it will ever be possible withi...

As I said, the agreement will set out the mechanism by which these matters are determined, so in ...

I have one more observation. I am just wondering how, in the case of the SNP, perpetual wrangling...

A good start is if we actually get an agreement that, I hope, we can announce in the not too dist...

Can I press the Minister on this? We have three models in front of us—the per capita index deduct...

The Committee will understand that at a very delicate time in the negotiations I do not want to c...

I have a question before my noble friend moves on. I accept we have had a good go on this but I a...

If there is faster population growth in the rest of the UK, that obviously will not just increase...

Will the Minister clarify a matter for me? When he talks about additional primary legislation, is...

As I said, it depends on the timing of an agreement. Obviously it would be preferable, if possibl...

The noble Lord said that this is not the most controversial element. In fact, he implied that it ...

The difficulty is that you cannot separate out one element of what is an overall package. Both Go...

Perhaps I might get the politics of this right. The proposal is that we absolutely have to get th...

No, I do not believe that it does. My noble friend is asking me to comment on hypotheticals. We a...

There does not seem to me to be a need for separate legislation on borrowing. It is very importan...

As I said, what we require in terms of legislation for borrowing depends on the final agreement. ...

I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Tabled by

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard

75A: After Clause 19, insert the following new Clau...

I understand the Minister’s point about nothing being agreed until everything is agreed. That see...

Moved by

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova

77: Clause 20, page 23, leave out lines 4 to 12 ...

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendments 77 and 79 in my name and that of my noble friend Lord McA...

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble and learned Lord, Lord Davidson of Glen Clova, and...

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for tabling these amendments, in particular Amendments 77N and ...

I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Davidson, for raising the amendments in his name and tha...

The Minister is being helpful but this is important. I do not see any escalation mechanism. I sup...

The first thing to say is that we do not anticipate problems. That is why I go back to this being...

I express my gratitude to the Minister for the clarifications that he has given in relation to di...

Moved by

Lord Dunlop

77B: Clause 21, page 24, line 42, at end insert—

“( ) In s...

Moved by

Lord Dunlop

77P: Clause 27, page 29, line 3, leave out “43” and insert “43(1...

Moved by

Lord Dunlop

77S: Clause 28, page 29, line 35, leave out from beginning to “n...

Moved by

Lord McAvoy

78: After Clause 28, insert the following new Clause—

“Joi...

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 78 standing in my name and that of my noble and learned friend Lor...

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, for his amendment. With this Bill we are moving into a new w...

That is an important group; I confess that I did not know that it met and dealt with those things...

The noble Lord raises a good point. One thing that I will take away from this debate is to see ho...

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his positive response, particularly with regard to his respons...

Moved by

Lord Dunlop

79ZB: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—

“S...

Moved by

Lord Dunlop

79ZE: Clause 65, page 73, line 20, after “24,” insert “25,”

Moved by

Lord Hope of Craighead

79A: Clause 68, page 74, line 22, leave out paragraph...

My Lords, this amendment is the first in a group which deals with Clause 68 and draws attention t...

My Lords, if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 79AA by reason of pre-emption.<...

My Lords, amendments in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Stephen are in this group. Basic...

Before the noble and learned Lord sits down, may I ask him a question on that point that I meant ...

The noble and learned Lord makes a very important and perceptive point, and I am glad it is not m...

Could the noble and learned Lord, with his considerable experience, give me some legal advice? I ...

That is a good point. As the noble Lord was making it I was wondering whether the phrase,

“...

I support the amendment tabled by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead. I said near...

My Lords, when I first saw Clause 68 I was outraged, and my instinct was to take it out entirely....

My Lords, I want to reinforce points that have already been made. It is important to stress that ...

My Lords, I join in the debate and fully endorse all of the speeches made, particularly by the no...

First, I thank noble and learned Lords for their contribution to the debate about Clause 68. Thes...

It is welcome to hear the Government’s view as regards potential amendments on Report. However, i...

I am happy to take the noble Lord’s point away and reflect on it, and I shall either write to him...

Can I take my noble friend back to the debate we had earlier when the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, ...

I absolutely stand by what I said earlier. There may be some aspects of borrowing that could be d...

Before the Minister sits down yet again, I am not quite sure from his explanation that he has ful...

I will certainly give further thought to what the noble and learned Lord has said and come back t...

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to all noble and noble and learned Lords who have spoken in thi...

Moved by

Lord McCluskey

79F: After Clause 68, insert the following new Clause—

...

I am not sure whether I moved Amendment 79F originally, but if I did, I would want to withdraw it...

As the noble and learned Lord has spoken to the amendment, I think he will have to move it, after...

I beg to move.

On the important point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord McCluskey, about having to table ...

Yes, I can confirm that.

I am sorry to intervene on the same point but we have today debated Part 7, in which Clause 68 ap...

This obviously has to be discussed through the usual channels but my understanding is that we wil...

Does the noble and learned Lord, Lord McCluskey, now wish to withdraw his amendment?

With the leave of the Committee, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Moved by

The Earl of Kinnoull

80: Clause 69, page 75, line 17, leave out subsections ...

My Lords, in moving Amendment 80, I wish to speak also to Amendment 81.

Amendment 80 is int...

My Lords, in supporting this amendment, I stress three aspects: its timeliness without leading to...

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 82, in my name and that of my noble friend Lord McAvoy, which allo...

My Lords, I add a word in support of the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter...

My Lords, it certainly had not been my intention to take part but I do so given the comments of t...

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, for the amendments th...

Before the Minister sits down, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, who I thank for his interve...

I am very happy to write to the noble Baroness on that point.

I thank the Minister for what he said. I was rather ungracious earlier on: he spent a lot of time...