My Lords, your Lordships will recall that, as the noble Lord, Lord Low, said, we had a very full debate, in which I participated, in Committee, so I shall simply summarise the contrary argument to that of the noble Lord. As I did then, I very much welcome the report that he and other noble Lords contributed to because it has many recommendations, some of which are in themselves very important for the delivery of future policy, and I hope that the document will be used in the future.
The essence of the argument is that the effect of Amendments 41 and 44 would be substantially to leave things as they are. However, things are not
satisfactory as they are. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord Low, said, it is not just about saving money, although needs must. We have to have regard to the necessity to reduce the overall welfare budget but, in truth, this is fundamentally about the benefit of those who have an albeit limited capability for work actually finding work.
The status quo is that we have a substantial number of people in the work-related activity group, 61% of whom want to work, but each month only 1% are moving off benefits. That is not good enough—it is what we need to move from, and we have to do all the things that are calculated to assist in that. Some of it I know we can agree on. The improvement in the availability of access to work, the extension of work choices, the development of the health and work scheme through to 2017, and the Government’s commitment of £100 million to support that programme are all very important. They are designed to help in the delivery of the objective that we share of halving the disability employment gap, which we also discussed fully on Monday.
5 pm
Beyond that, there is also the question of whether, under those circumstances, we should leave the position as it is with regard to the relationship between out-of-work benefit income and in-work income. The findings of the 2005 study looking at employment generally are, on the face of it, pretty straightforward to understand and evidentially attested: the bigger the gap between income in work and income through benefit, the greater the likelihood of people seeking and finding work. It is, effectively, a kind of economic law of gravity. That being the case, we are dealing here with people who have a limited capability for work. We should not elide the assessment that they are not able to work—if they were not able to work at all they should be in the ESA group and not the WRAG. We all agree that there should be a robust form of assessment, and there is a debate to be had about that, but abolishing the WRAG does not preclude, and in fact might advantage, the process of ensuring that the assessment of the criteria for people being in the ESA group is properly pursued.
So where does that leave us? We should be assisting people into work and the Government need to improve on that. At the same time, we need to make sure that both the support and the incentive structure are fully aligned and not working against each other. That requires change, and change is what undoubtedly Clauses 13 and 14 will bring. It is devoutly to be wished for that we achieve this because the fundamental point, to me, is that we should be looking for people who have a capability for work, albeit limited, to actually be in work. It makes an enormous difference.
It is precisely because so many of those people in the WRAG have mental and behavioural difficulties and problems they have to overcome that the sooner they can be in work, the greater the support for them to be in work or, if they fall out of work, to return to work as quickly as possible—again we discussed this on Monday—through the rollout and access to the IAPT, the greater the benefit that we will give them. The biggest benefit we can give them is to enable them to be in work. Contrary to what I recall the noble
Baroness, Lady Lister, saying, work is not a cul-de-sac; work is a route. It is a valid route out of poverty, a route to dignity and a route for people to be no longer dependent on benefits—and they do not want to be dependent on benefits. Frankly, we have to use the opportunity in Clauses 13 and 14 to change the current situation and make that happen. Taking those clauses out would, I am afraid, simply leave us in the unsatisfactory position that we have been in for too long.