My Lords, I thank the Minister for that comprehensive response. I would like to say a word or two about some of the other contributions. I am not sure whether the noble Baroness, Lady Perry, was here when I made my closing speech on the second group of amendments, but I think that I answered most of the points that she raised then. I shall briefly repeat them. The fundamental point is that doing nothing was not an option; it never has been and it has not been suggested. I outlined other possibilities at that time, and that remains our position. Secondly, we have not advocated a ballot, so it is not about having a vote on the matter. Thirdly, the emphasis, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said, will be on convincing the parents that what is being proposed is in the best interests of the children. To me, that is always the best way forward, if possible. Finally, Amendment 23 says that the Secretary of State will have the final say by being obliged to “take into account” what has happened. I hope that that answers her points—it is not all or nothing.
I think that I heard the noble Lord, Lord True, correctly when he said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Storey, that in this democracy the people decide. That is exactly what we are calling for—but it seems that that does not happen with academisation.
The noble Lord, Lord Nash, said that parents have the right to know of and be involved in the plans. Involvement is a rather elastic concept, and what it means to one set of parents may not be what it means to another. I certainly appreciate the value of Amendment 20, as I said in my opening remarks, and parents will be pleased that they will at least, I imagine, be summoned to a meeting in the school hall, given a presentation and able to ask all sorts of questions, but there is no way for any rethink on the sponsor. That is the fundamental issue from my point of view. There may well be a number of reasons why the sponsor is deemed to be unfit as a result of what they say to the parents, but there is no way of dealing with that. That is a problem.
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The Minister said that having consultation could raise the temperature of the debate. A change of school is likely to raise the temperature of the debate anyway, and simply telling parents the facts without asking what they think may well exacerbate their concerns. I remain unconvinced that parents are incapable of discussing in a responsible manner the sponsor’s plans for the school that their children attend. I remain convinced that the overwhelming majority of parents will welcome action to improve the school that their children attend. I am well aware that parents may object for other reasons, but the Government are underestimating parents’ ability to have an interest in and a knowledge of the education of their children and to want to do their best to maximise its benefits for their children. I find that a bit depressing because it seems that I have rather more faith in human nature than either of the Ministers.
Amendments 21, 22 and 23 are a step down from our proposals in Amendment 16A as the decision on academisation would have been made by this stage, but the Minister is still not prepared to countenance any proper involvement of parents or their having a meaningful voice, which is a cause for regret. However, we have been through the issues in some detail. I hear what he says on the sunset clause and what may happen. It is not clear what the future holds, and we put this amendment down to highlight that fact. In the circumstances, we have discussed these issues as much as we usefully can. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.