UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill

My Lords, I am very grateful for the comments that have been made from around the House. There is no need for the noble Baroness to worry about damaging my career prospects. As I am reliably informed, I do not have many, having already exceeded my mother’s expectations for my career some years ago.

The noble Baroness made a very important point about the fact that we have considered 237 amendments and there has been no Division, but that is not to say that there has been no difference, change or argument, or really passionate debate. I can think of some of the debates that we have had, particularly on academic freedom and communications data, to which my noble friend Lady Buscombe referred. We have had passionate debate all the way through, and as a result of that 40 amendments have been made to the Bill, which will now go on its journey to another place.

3.45 pm

I guess that is probably part of the reassurance that I would offer to my noble friend. Certainly I would never wish to deal in platitudes. We had made progress in recognising that the guidance put out for consultation was going to be unworkable in that form, to be quite frank, so we conceded that there would need to be changes. An added layer of commitment to that was the decision that this would not just be issued by the Secretary of State in guidance next month but would be subject to the affirmative resolution of both Houses of Parliament. That is an added guarantee and something that will be welcomed.

I am conscious that I was asked by the noble Baronesses, Lady Lister and Lady Smith, and my noble friend Lady Hamwee to put on record the comments made in paragraph 1 of page 4 of my letter, which states:

“If the further Government amendment is agreed”—

it just has been—

“it will also require academic institutions to have ‘particular regard’ to the academic freedoms referred to in section 202(2)(a) of the Education Reform Act 1988. ‘Particular regard’ is stronger than ‘due regard’ because it elevates the consideration to the top of the list of factors to be weighed up”.

My explanation means that it elevates it to the top, not that there are no other factors that should be considered and that it trumps all; it should be given the very highest consideration.

I am also grateful to my noble friend Lady Williams for her persistence on the issue of engaging students. That has been a very positive contribution in thinking through the shape of the guidance. We need to make sure that people do not see this as a threat to freedom in any way but as a way of keeping our campuses and institutions safe, and keeping strong the values that we hold dear in our society.

In that regard, the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, asked why the sixth form was being treated differently. The position reflects all other legislation that applies to the further education sector. It maintains the position of treating schools differently from further education, which has been the approach of successive Governments. The issue raised, therefore, goes far wider than the immediate provision in the Bill and may be something that a future Government will want to address.

I was asked about that guidance by my noble friend Lady Buscombe and the noble Baroness, Lady Lister. We hope to introduce the guidance in Parliament before the end of the current Session. That should be done so that people can start preparing and there can be greater clarity.

I think that my noble friend Lady Brinton responded to my noble friend Lord Phillips. I am not seeking to provoke him to rise to his feet at this point but to say that these are changes, and the more clarity that can be put on the record, either from the Dispatch Box or in guidance and codes of practice, the less likely it is that people will argue about this in the courts. They are more likely to see it as clear and how we ought to set about it and what the Government’s aim is. That will be for the benefit of all. With those responses, I commend the amendment.

Type
Proceeding contribution
Reference
759 cc1033-4 
Session
2014-15
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
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