My Lords, I wish to make three points and I shall end with a question to the Minister.
First, we should record at some point in our proceedings the considerable debt we owe to the Joint Committee for its work in the pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill, for the work it has done since then in trying to feed into our debates and discussions the intelligence it had gained and the knowledge that it had as a result of that process, as exemplified by my noble friend Lady Andrews’s comments. It once again proves the need for Parliament to think harder about how it gets its legislation together. There is no doubt that, in comparison with a couple of other Bills that I have been involved in recently, the Deregulation Bill is in much better shape. Even though it is a much longer, more complex, Christmas tree-type Bill that has come through, we have found it easier to deal with. If we ever discussed how we do these things, we would conclude that it has been done better.
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My second point is that the substance of what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, is irrefutable. I am sure that if the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, had been able to be in his place, we would have a double-barrel effect where he would have picked up on this as well and taken it through. As we have heard, perhaps in ellipsis from the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, this is a bit of a sorry story where an initial attempt to push through a ministerial-led set of repeals was eventually transmuted to the form in which we have it on the page. But of course I do not think that that answers the substantial point, which is that Parliament should have the use of an independent body which has the expertise and impartiality to advise it on matters of taking away legislation. It is all too easy to make mistakes and we are stupid if we do not take the advice of those who have expertise and knowledge in these areas.
My third point is that we have live and practical reasons to consider whether what has been said in support of the amendment moved by the noble Lord is good. I draw the Minister’s attention to the Hansard reports of our brief discussion about the Breeding of
Dogs Act 1973 and the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999, which I am sure are seared in his memory. As a dog owner himself—even if in a remote part of our United Kingdom—he will no doubt be aware of the intricacies and issues that were brought out by that rather exciting exchange between himself and my noble friend Lord Grantchester. My point in raising this is that it was quite clear that the process of repeal of those two Acts was proceeding in a context in which new regulations, which were in many ways designed to supersede some but not all of the provisions here, were being introduced in a way that was not coherent; a broader span was needed. The noble and learned Lord will not be aware of it because he was not involved, but the department that is responsible for this area was taking through its standing order relating to the introduction of microchipping for dogs. In an exchange, which again I refer the noble and learned Lord to for further consideration, my noble friend Lord Grantchester was able to draw attention to the debates I have just mentioned, but it seemed to come as news to the department that there had ever been an exchange about the Breeding of Dogs Act 1973 and the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999 in the context of the repeals of these pieces of legislation.
The particular question I have for the Minister is whether anyone had actually acted on his kind offer, which I am sure was genuinely made, to ensure that the implications of the regulations which applied from the introduction of the repeal of these Acts would not happen until such time as further consultation had taken place on both the microchipping and the breeding issues which were raised by my noble friend Lord Grantchester in his speeches. We understand from those exchanges only two weeks ago that none of that consultation had taken place.
I have used that as an example and I do not expect a detailed response from the Minister. However, this plays back to what the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, has been saying. This often has a long tail of consequences. I end with a thought inspired by the comments I have made. If we do have a dog, why are we barking?