My Lords, as we have already heard this afternoon, widespread concern over the proposal to include under-15s—I think the Minister inadvertently referred to under-14s in his opening—and girls in secure colleges has been voiced repeatedly in debates in this House during the Bill’s troubled passage through the legislative process. I will not rehearse the arguments again, save in one important respect. The numbers involved are small, which, as indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, implies that of necessity the group will contain members coming from even greater distances than the majority of young people who will be housed at Glen Parva—which, it will be recalled, will contain about one-third of the national number of children in detention and will already therefore, on present plans, cover a large geographical area. Thus girls and under-15s—the most vulnerable groups—will be even further from the homes and communities to which they will return.
As we have heard, the Government have at last conceded—no doubt thanks to the eloquent advocacy of the Minister, who does listen carefully to debates in your Lordships’ House—that a final decision will be taken on the basis of the affirmative resolution procedure. So far as it goes, that is of course welcome, although we have to recognise that it does not go very far, since such resolutions cannot be amended. Will the Minister at least accept that there should be separate resolutions for each of the two categories—girls in general and those under the age of 15? That would possibly allow separate decisions to be made in the light of evidence at that time, if it was thought to be necessary, rather than treating both in exactly the same way.
The parliamentary procedure that has now been laid down, after the concession for which we are grateful, will follow consultations. I asked a number of questions about the nature of the intended consultations in the debate of 9 December, to which the Minister in his reply—in fairness, he was replying to many things—made no reference. Therefore, I am constrained to repeat some of those questions.
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I asked which organisations or experts supported the proposals, and whether the Government had considered the approaches of the United States and Spain in dealing with these groups, to which the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, repeatedly referred. I asked whether the consultation would take place before the construction of the units that would house these groups, as I feared that if it did not, the process would be seen as something of a sham. I asked who would be consulted, apart from the three bodies cited: the Youth Justice Board, the Inspectorate of Prisons—whose chief inspector, now unfortunately heading for the exit, has criticised the concept—and Ofsted, presumably on curricular matters. I mentioned as possible consultees the Children’s Rights Alliance, the Prison Reform Trust, the Standing Committee for Youth Justice, the Howard League and the eight national women’s organisations which collectively raised concerns about girl offenders.
I also cited the British Medical Association, which published a report on young offenders entitled Young Lives Behind Bars, local authorities, in the light of the
fact that children’s services and perhaps other departments would have a clear interest and a responsibility in this area, and the probation service—or perhaps I should say probation services, as what was a single service is now somewhat fragmented. If there is to be meaningful consultation on this important and controversial programme as it goes forward, it should surely extend to such bodies as these. Perhaps the Minister could indicate the Government’s response.
Another matter which must be raised is the Government’s declared intention to press ahead with entering into a contract for this project within weeks of a general election that may lead to a new Government whose hands could therefore be tied in advance. Given that opposition and serious misgivings are widely shared in your Lordships’ House and well beyond—debates have repeatedly confirmed that they are by no means confined to the Labour Benches in this House or the Commons—it would surely be wrong to pre-empt an alternative approach. If it is the Government’s intention to proceed to a letter contract before the election, what, apart from the Lord Chancellor’s impatience, would be the justification for that unseemly haste?
Having said that, I repeat that the Minister deserves the thanks of the House and, more importantly, of those who are engaged in looking after young people, for the concession that has been made, and I hope that, in operation, it will allow due consideration of any difficulties that may be perceived by those with whom consultations will take place before any statutory instrument is laid.