I support this important probing amendment. I hope it will provide an opportunity to iron out some of this detail. With a provision such as this, especially when there are real concerns within certain communities about the motivation for it and the impact that it will have on them, transparency of process is essential. Therefore, the more that we can get in the Bill, and the more of detailed process that we can have, the more that will help to get what we want to achieve.
This amendment returns to the purpose of the exclusion orders. In many ways, the temporary exclusion order would probably have better been called the controlled entry order or even the managed return order. In that way, it would have been much more reflective of what the TEO is trying to do. It would have said what it was on the tin and would have dealt with some of the controversy that surrounds it. It may be that this is something that Ministers will want to reconsider. Maybe they will. It is general election year, so maybe they will not.
Following on from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, on the importance of the detail of the process, I should like to ask one or two questions. Have we considered the implications of what we would be expecting other states to do in relation to our commitments under other international obligations? We can take the example that the noble Baroness gave, of someone being detained but subsequently tortured or mistreated somewhere overseas, wherever it may be. There is a lot of talk of places such as Turkey, but this person could be engaged in terrorist activity in Afghanistan and return via Pakistan. What are implications of this and what assurances about these countries would we have?
How would these people be returned? If a person is considered to be a dangerous individual who has in some way been involved in terrorist activity, I am not sure I would want to be sitting on a commercial flight back from Istanbul with them. Have we considered the implications of returning these people and the resource implications of having to pay for individual flights for them to be returned?
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Would such a person be returned as a person returning under this permit or would they be returning as a detainee? There are very specific consequences that would follow from that and it is important for us to
clarify that. What if the person wanted to return to Europe—say, to France or Germany but not to the United Kingdom? I am not sure whether this was dealt with at Second Reading so I hope your Lordships will forgive me if I am asking something that has already been raised. How would the process that we are putting in place have an impact on controlling their entry back into the European Union?
I ask these questions as a way of getting some clarification. I would add to my noble friend that, probably more than many other Members of this House, I will have to go out and sell this piece of legislation in a bid to ensure that it does not create unease and conflict within and between communities. I therefore have to be armed with very practical answers to what will happen if in the event that somebody’s child—anybody’s child, or my child—could be subjected to this kind of order. The more I can reassure those communities, the more I think that the Government will find communities co-operating and doing the kind of thing that we have seen parents doing already, which is going to the police and authorities and saying, “My son or my daughter is abroad. I want them to return. I am going to help you get them back”.