My Lords, we have had a very interesting and full debate on some aspects of the clause. As I am sure the Minister has picked up, this is a probing amendment and we hope to have a constructive dialogue. It seems to me that there is scope for further discussions outside the Grand Committee Room should the Minister wish to do so. We on this side would welcome that because there are things that need to be explored in a more concise way.
I do not want to add any more complexity to the Minister’s job of trying to reply to this debate but I was a bit confused about territoriality and I wondered if he could look at that. Clause 89 is an extent clause. Subsection (5) says:
“Sections 59, 60, 67, 79, 80 and 83 to 88”—
which includes the clause we are discussing today—
“this section and sections 90 and 91 extend to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland”.
It does not include places that are not mentioned in that list, presumably the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and so forth. That is all grist to the mill for a Minister with such experience as the noble Lord, Lord Wallace.
However, with reference to the functions to which Section 83 applies, Clause 84(3) states:
“An order under this section may not specify … a regulatory function so far as exercisable in Scotland … a regulatory function so far as exercisable in Northern Ireland … a regulatory function so far as exercisable in Wales”.
All of these are caveated by the comment about the extent to which these matters have been devolved to the respective territories.
3.15 pm
Am I right in assuming that this actually applies only to England? A very large number of matters that we are talking about today are indeed devolved or not reserved, as the wording would have it, to these respective bodies. That means that certain regulators that have a UK-wide remit will have an even more difficult job in interpreting the Government’s wishes in this most important clause if at the same time they are required not to exercise these functions in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, but only in England. If they wish to have them exercised they will presumably have to negotiate separately with the respective Parliaments in those places. That sounds fun.