My Lords, I had not intended to speak in this debate but, given that my noble friend raised the Food Standards Agency, I want to put a couple of points on the record.
I had the privilege of serving as chair of the Food Standards Agency between 2009 and 2013—that is, during the genesis of this issue. The list of non-economic regulators on pages 21 and 22 of the guidance—I have not counted them; there are about 50—vary between executive agencies of government departments, non-departmental public bodies and free-standing, non-ministerial government departments. The staff of these regulators are either civil servants or non-civil servants, so there is a variety there. For example, the staff of the Environment Agency are not civil servants.
I make it clear that the Food Standards Agency is a non-ministerial department. Ministers have no role whatever in food safety regulation in this country. The legislation relating to food safety is entirely a matter for the board of the Food Standards Agency. The best thing about the board is that it meets in an open and transparent way and it transmits its meetings on a webcast. That is the only time that the board discusses policy. Of course, that is not the case with the rest, which are political departments operating behind closed doors.
My point is that the doubts about food safety do not hold water. That is not to say, of course, that people do not come with a try-on. During my time at the agency, at one point we were ordered—and Star Chamber’d more than once—over this Red Tape Challenge nonsense, which I keep coming back to because it is the Achilles heel here, not to inspect kitchens in village halls or the kitchens at paid childminder services. I told Ministers, as my successor has done, “Dirty kitchens kill and we’re going to carry on doing it. It’s as simple as that”. However, there was no problem whatever in embracing the growth duty. For example, the meat industry in this country is a £6 billion industry and exports are a big part of that. Exports to new markets such as China and Russia are crucial. You cannot export meat out of this country unless the premises in which it is prepared are signed off by the regulator—in this case, the Food Standards Agency, not Defra or the Department of Health. The certificates given to the Russians and the Chinese come from the FSA.
We saw that as our contribution to part of the growth duty. When we were asked to act, we got on and did it pretty quickly. Sometimes the requirements of the Russians in respect of food safety in the meat industry are greater than those of the European Union. Therefore, we came across companies which had to up their game in order to fulfil the export market. We needed to get in there quickly so that there was no delay. We once had a Member of Parliament churlishly complaining at Prime Minister’s Question Time on behalf of a company, but the abattoir in question was not up to Russian standards. I will not name it but it is
on the record in Hansard. The fact was that it had to up its game, and we saw that as our positive contribution. We made sure that, when we got a request, we dealt with it pretty smartly and arranged early inspections.
The other part of the growth duty concerns retail. Anybody preparing food can get, free of charge, a Safer Food, Better Business pack. It almost tells people how to run a business, whether it is a care home kitchen, a retail kitchen or a restaurant, and it is provided free of charge by the FSA. It tells them how to run a better business by providing safer food. That is part of the growth agenda: making sure it is clear and applicable to small businesses. We did one especially for small and medium-sized business because we realised it does not always apply. Then the FSA was able to say to Ministers, who were actually asking us not to inspect kitchens used by vulnerable groups in village halls and childminders, that dirty kitchens kill. In other words, off you go. However, our contribution to the growth agenda was the two examples I have just given, so it is a balance.
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Ministers have no role in food. It is crucial. For the avoidance of doubt, because I have been on this for more than eight months now, I have yet to hear a commitment that the next Labour Government will maintain an arm’s-length non-ministerial department Food Standards Agency free from ministerial interference. I was told by more than one Permanent Secretary that no public health Minister in the 12 years since it was set up ever understood the FSA when they were appointed, and when they leave the role, they have decided they do not like it because they wake up to the fact that they have no policy input whatever. There are no levers to pull, they simply answer to Parliament for a non-ministerial department, a bit like the Chancellor answers for HMRC, which is a non-ministerial department, but cannot interfere in the detail.
There is an issue of balance here and I wanted to put it on the record because it is important. As far as the FSA is concerned, there is no threat to food safety in this country from the growth duty. I do not speak for the FSA, but that is the position. I know it responded—it would respond to the inquiries of the Opposition because in a way everything it does is open and transparent. Not all Whitehall departments are like that, of course. It terrifies the rest of Whitehall. Obviously issues relating to some of the other regulators are dealt with behind closed doors and there is bound to be suspicion.
Have all the boards on the list had a discussion about the growth question? It is a fair question to ask. They all have boards with a chair one way or another. They are all supposed to be independent in their regulatory function, and therefore one assumes that they have discussed the matter. That surely ought to be a matter of public record. As far as the Food Standards Agency is concerned, I want to make it clear that it is different in status to some of the other bodies, being a fully fledged Treasury-funded government department. It is not an offshoot of health. Health simply answers the questions. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, much to
his credit, answers the questions with the answers given by the FSA, and it is the same in the other department. The department is not involved in drafting them.
The FSA is a free-standing government department concerned only with safe food and customers first. That comes under Section 1 of the legislation that set it up. From that point of view, it is important to put it on the record. Whatever we might argue about the growth duty, the nuances, the way it has changed as the legislation has gone through following the scrutiny of the Joint Committee and whatever aspirations Ministers might have, the fact of the matter is that there is no threat whatever to food safety from these clauses.