My Lords, I agree with much of what the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, has said. I was unable to be present for that part of Committee that focused on the emotive issue of secondary ticketing, but I have read Hansard, and my first point is that I have some sympathy in reading the anecdotes and anomalies raised, notably by the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord Clement-Jones, as well as my noble friends Lord Moynihan and Lady Heyhoe Flint, among others.
I admit that there is a range of frustrating issues over the sale and resale of secondary ticketing, which have been cited. I also note that the noble Lord, Lord Pendry, is in his place; he noted in Committee that these matters have been debated over 20 years, which shows that they are not easy. I was pleased to meet my noble friends Lady Heyhoe Flint and Lord Moynihan to discuss these matters, when in my role on the Front Bench, so I am aware of many of the issues.
I start by stating the obvious. As a principle, we should not legislate or regulate when either there is existing regulation in place—and I note the comments from my noble friend Lord Deben that that means good legislation—or there are solutions coming from the market. The question is whether safeguards are in place and whether they are being utilised. In the case of business-to-consumer sales of tickets, the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 set out clearly as a list what information must be provided on tickets. There are more than 20 pieces of information requirements to which the consumer has access, and there is guidance for consumers on how to apply them to tickets. If there is a breach, the whereabouts of your seat is important—for example, if you are unexpectedly placed behind a pillar when you are watching a cricket match. Here you have redress under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Other potential breaches can come under the Fraud Act, as mentioned today, as an offence. The sanctions including fines or imprisonment are in place. Given the comments of my noble friend Lady Heyhoe Flint about the law being ineffectual, I would however ask the Minister if it would not be a good idea to do more, such as better publicising the sanctions and advertising warning notices for those traders, or traders posing as consumers, who might be minded to commit such offences. Of course, more offenders caught will act as a deterrent—or should do.
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The CMA and Trading Standards have an important role to play in regulating this area, but I do not believe that more legislation is necessarily required. With regard to consumer-to-consumer sales, some Peers have made the point that, despite the frustrations for some event organisers of not having a reassurance that tickets sold stay with the original purchasers—those who would otherwise attend the events—the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. If someone cannot go to a concert or sports fixture, because, for example, there is a death in the family, then it surely makes sense for them to sell the ticket on at whatever price is negotiated with whomsoever they wish. Seventy per cent of consumers agree with this principle. It is therefore an open negotiation between two parties. Of course, however, in listening to the arguments, I admit that this can be taken to extremes.
The main argument taken up in Committee, and also mentioned today, is that tickets can be sold en bloc from the originating ticket seller to an individual or individuals who then sell on for profit to other people. The point has already been made. I agree that this should not happen—it is not in the spirit of the production, or match. The originator has the technological means to stop this, which is a point very strongly made by my noble friend Lord Stoneham, and controlling ticket sales better by this means is the way forward.
The danger is that if there was too much legal intervention, there would certainly be a black market for tickets which would inevitably grow with time. In conclusion, I believe that a voluntary approach with improved guidance and with better point-of-sale electronic means to control ticketing is the way forward.