UK Parliament / Open data

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, for moving the amendment and the other noble Lords who have put their names to it. It would amend Clause 14, under which the Secretary of State will arrange for the operation and the future of the Civil Partnership Act 2004 in England and Wales to be reviewed. The amendment requires the terms of the review to be extended to consider first, the case for enabling carers and family members who live together to register civil partnerships and secondly the case for creating a new legal institution to give carers and family members the same benefits as couples in a civil partnership.

I recognise, as we did in Committee, that many views have been expressed very passionately. I listened in particular to my noble friend Lady Hooper, who made an important contribution to this debate arising from her own circumstances. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, that, in many respects, the issues that have been raised about inheritance or the rights to have a say, for example, about funeral arrangements or related matters are issues in their own right. I will say more later about whether there has been a clamour for them, but my principal position is that this is not appropriate for a review of civil partnerships.

First, there is the issue of the nature and purpose of civil partnerships. They were designed to provide rights and responsibilities akin, to use the word of the noble Lord, Lord Alli, to those of marriage for same-sex couples. I note that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester thought that they possibly mirrored marriage too much. I think he said that was the view when they were brought in. These rights and responsibilities were provided because under the Civil Partnership Act

people were unable to marry because they were the same sex. As civil partnerships are akin to marriage they have a formal means of entry and exit. They have imported the prohibited degrees of affinity parallel to those in marriage law. They have similar rules governing deathbed civil partnerships and financial and property arrangements.

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I believe that seeking the extension of civil partnerships to family members is tantamount to seeking to allow marriage between close family members within the prohibited degrees of affinity. We have decided as a society that it is undesirable for close family members, such as siblings or a parent and child, to marry. I accept, as the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, said, that the issue of procreation does not always arise, such as in a marriage between a man and a woman who are both pensioners. Nevertheless, they can still bring great companionship to each other. No one questions that that devalues that marriage or the concept of marriage in any way. However, we would not think it right for even a brother and sister over the age of 60 to marry as over generations our society has said that is not appropriate and not right. Even where procreation is impossible, that is not something that should happen.

My noble friend Lady Berridge said that she had heard of situations where couples had been separated and questioned about a possible sexual relationship. I suspect that couples being separated before they can marry is in certain cases intended for the prevention of sham civil partnerships. A couple have to have a face-to-face meeting with a registrar where the registrar takes notice of the marriage and needs to assure him or herself that they are indeed a genuine couple who actually know each other and that it is not a sham civil partnership for immigration purposes. It is not to ensure that there is a sexual relationship between them.

Regarding carers and those they care for, there is, as the noble Lord, Lord Alli, pointed out, nothing in general to prevent them marrying or entering into a civil partnership at present. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, referred again to the man who was paralysed after a riding accident and his younger carer. I am sure that, in personal terms, that is a very real relationship. As I understand it—I think that it was said in an earlier debate—the younger carer was male as well. There is nothing in the law as it stands at present as to why they cannot enter into a civil partnership. It would be wholly wrong and inappropriate to speculate why they have not. There may be many cases of carers up and down the country where a civil partnership has not proceeded because they do not feel that that is right because of the way in which civil partnerships have developed or the origins of them.

As was discussed in Committee, the change would mean that couples would have to dissolve the civil partnership if either party wanted to marry or enter into a civil partnership with someone else from outwith their family whom they loved, with all the financial implications and legal and practical difficulties involved in a dissolution. That is why I believe that shoehorning such relationships into the existing regime of civil partnerships will not work. I listened carefully to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and she said that perhaps

it could be ended by a letter or simply by someone going off and marrying someone else. That fails to understand what Parliament legislated for when it established the institution of civil partnership. It was an institution with a very formal means of entering into it and a very formal means of leaving it. I understand where the noble Baroness was coming from and why she was arguing that case, but what she was actually arguing for was not a civil partnership at all. Again, that is why we do not believe that this should take place in the review of the nature that we propose.

I accept, too, that not as much has been said in this debate about the financial benefits of inheritance tax. I salute those who argued the case for the extension of the review in Committee and quite openly and frankly talked about inheritance tax. It was commendable frankness. However, I do not think that treating civil partnerships as a vehicle for gaining tax or property benefits is appropriate. Indeed, it is disrespectful for those who enter into civil partnerships because of a mutual love, be it sexual or a desire for companionship. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, put it very starkly about fathers and daughters, but as the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, pointed out in terms of this amendment, that would indeed be possible in civil partnerships. However, there are other possible situations which could arise that underline that civil partnerships are not really intended for families. What do you do with two siblings caring for a mother—which of the two would form a civil partnership with the mother? What about two sisters and a brother living together? Who would form a civil partnership with whom? Imagine the contentiousness of the choice and the sense of rejection if one sibling were preferred to the other. Who would an elderly father living with two sons choose to form a civil partnership with? These examples illustrate that it is not appropriate.

The other issue is whether benefits equivalent to those enjoyed by civil partnerships should be made available to carers and other family members. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, asked whether there was a clamour for this. There is no correspondence filling up the in-trays of my ministerial colleagues on this issue, and I rather suspect from the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, that the same was true for those who were in ministerial office before the present Administration. Since 2004, as far as we are aware, this issue has been raised only once during debates on the Finance Bill in the other place. I appreciate that in this House we cannot raise amendments to the Finance Bill. However, my information is that there has been only one such amendment, to the 2008-09 Finance Bill, tabled by the right honourable Member for Birkenhead, Mr Frank Field. Other than that, the issue has not been raised in an amendment. Carers UK—in a parliamentary briefing which I understand it did not circulate to parliamentarians but which I am happy to make available and put in the Library—said:

“In 2004 we reviewed an amendment to the Civil Partnerships Act”—

Bill, as it was then—

“as it was passing through the House of Lords, that carers should also be able to form a civil partnership. At that time, we foresaw a number of complex and difficult problems with this approach

and did not feel it was the right way to solve the challenges that carers face. Our view remains the same in 2013”.

As my noble friend Lady Barker said, there are a host of other issues with regard to carers, some of which we are addressing in the Care Bill currently before your Lordships’ House, but I do not believe the way to tackle them is as proposed in this amendment.

The issue is whether these matters should properly be included in the civil partnership review. The argument was made—I say, prima facie, with some logic—that if we are going to have a review, this matter should be included. However, as I have said before, what is proposed is a fundamental change which is very different from civil partnerships as they were established and as they have developed. That point was well made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, who said that the review will examine the consequences of the Bill for the existing civil partnership regime—indeed, whether there is a need for the institution of civil partnerships following this Bill or whether they should be extended to opposite-sex couples. That is the proper remit of the review. I accept that other issues arise which have been very properly aired and which can be followed up in other pieces of legislation with regard to specific rights and responsibilities. However, it is not the purpose of the review to seek to transform civil partnerships from a legal union of a committed and loving couple into something which is very different in nature and has been described as simply a contract which you can get out of by writing a letter or marrying someone else. Therefore, although it was important to have this debate, I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw the amendment.

Type
Proceeding contribution
Reference
747 cc318-321 
Session
2013-14
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
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