My Lords, I wish I could be so brief, because the noble Baroness has just summed up the
position very well indeed. As has been made very clear, the amendments proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, would prevent the Bill being enacted before the next general election by adding a new provision calling for a referendum in England and Wales on proposals to make the marriage of same-sex couples lawful. Indeed, the next general election would be the earliest date which is provided for by the amendment, which also provides reasons to extend it until 2016.
The Government do not believe that this is a sensible course of action, and nor is it required. The Government’s position is that referendums should be used only in issues of substantial constitutional significance. Noble Lords may recall that the Constitution Committee of your Lordships’ House published a report in 2010 on referendums in the United Kingdom. I was a member of the Constitution Committee at that time. The report was clear that matters of substantial constitutional significance would fall within the following proposals:
“To abolish the Monarchy … To leave the European Union … For any of the nations of the UK to secede from the Union … To abolish either House of Parliament … To change the electoral system for the House of Commons … To adopt a written constitution … To change the UK’s system of currency”.
The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, listed the kind of referendums that we have had, and I think they all fall within these definitions, these issues of constitutional significance. We do not believe that the amendments are appropriate or necessary. This is because while I acknowledge that extending the existing institution of marriage to same-sex couples is of huge significance and importance to those couples who are currently being prevented from marrying, and quite clearly from our debates this evening is the subject of strong feelings among those who oppose it, we do not believe that these are matters of substantial constitutional significance along the lines of those which the Constitution Committee identified.
Turning to technical matters, my noble friend Lords Dobbs pointed out that Members of your Lordships’ House would be denied a vote in any such referendum. I also note that there was an interesting point about the question, because the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 makes provision for how a question should be dealt with if it is present on the introduction of the Bill, or indeed if the wording is to be done subsequently by way of order. It does not make any provision for what would happen if a question was introduced at a later stage. Quite clearly, my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, see no role for the Electoral Commission in judging the merits of the question and reporting to Parliament, as now seems to be an accepted part in other circumstances of our arrangements on referendums.
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I remind your Lordships, as did my noble friend Lord Fowler most effectively, that in spite of the opposition to the Bill—and I respect the fact that those views are sincerely held—the other place, a democratically elected House, voted overwhelmingly in favour of this Bill on a free vote. To those who seek to suggest that it was not quite so free, I say carefully as a member of the Liberal Democrat part of the
coalition that on issues such as Europe, where there is a government line, trying to get some Conservative Members necessarily to support it is not always easy. I simply do not believe that, when there is a free vote, full advantage is not taken of it.
Further, this House voted by a significant majority to give the Bill its Second Reading. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, said that some people perhaps voted because they thought that it was constitutionally right to give the Bill a Second Reading, but there was nevertheless a substantial majority in this House in favour of a Second Reading and we are now doing what the House wished us to do; that is, to scrutinise the Bill. I believe that we have done that very effectively. I do not believe that anyone has filibustered; the amendments have been very properly considered. I do not propose to go into all the procedures that were adopted in the other place, because it is not really for us to do that, but I simply observe that not all the time allocated to the Public Bill Committee was taken up in their deliberations. Perhaps crucially, if those who voted in the other place are seeking election again in May 2015, they will have to account to their electors as to how they voted. That is the proper way in which our democracy works; that is where our democracy will have its proper fulfilment. People who are elected will have to argue why they voted in a particular way on this measure.
The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, made just as fully at Second Reading a number of the points that he raised today. Those points were effectively dealt with then by my noble friend Lady Stowell in her response to the debate, when she referred to matters such as the contract for equalities which was published alongside the Conservative manifesto. I do not propose to rehearse all those arguments again this evening.
My noble friend Lord Dobbs put his finger on it when he said that this Bill is not about numbers, but that at the heart of it is doing the right thing and ensuring equality for same-sex couples and religious freedom. The Bill also tries to give proper protection to those who have a strong religious belief. With the greatest respect, I take exception to what the noble Lord, Lord Singh, said about our not having had regard to those who are concerned about freedom of speech and religious belief. I think that there is unanimity in this House that we must try to ensure proper protection for those who wish quite legitimately to express a view which opposes marriage of same-sex partners. We have striven to reassure religious organisations and individual priests and celebrants within them that provisions are in place to give the kind of security with regard to religious belief which we believe is proper.