I thank the noble Lord for that intervention, but I think that that is the point I am trying to make. We are dealing with particular aspects of the design industry, which under this Bill is the production of individual designs that may or may not lead to products being created. However, the point made in the Section 52 debates—they became something else and were not on Section 52, but we know what we are talking about—was about a system of providing what my noble friend Lord Howarth said was missing in all our debates. What is the minimum period consistent with supporting innovation? Do we think that it lies more in the region of short terms such as five, 10 or 15 years, or even three years? Is that sufficient time to earn the return back on a particular artefact? I agree with the Minister that obviously it depends on the artefact. Alternatively, are we saying that any activity involving the production of original creativity deserves a period of the life of that designer plus 70 years? The two do not run together well.
Although the Minister has kindly said that he will write, this deserves more of a debate and discussion, possibly outside the confines of this Bill, so that we as a country think hard about this stuff, because we do not act alone. We are obviously straining to provide certainty and satisfaction in these areas for those who live and work in the United Kingdom. To a limited extent, that is extended to the European Union—and, in a particular measure on patents, to others affected by international treaties. But we are mainly talking about a UK arrangement that cannot extend beyond our borders and certainly does not run in other countries involved in copying or making articles that may or may not have a resemblance sufficient to warrant intervention through our legal processes, when they are brought back and sold here, as designs that originated here.
I do not think that we have got to the heart of this issue in this debate, which is a pity. The Minister was using the argument that the Bill was in part a completion of the Hargreaves recommendations but, as I said at Second Reading, Hargreaves did not take us to some of the conclusions in the Bill; he was very careful in many cases to point out that there were problems in the area and to suggest that more work was required before any Government could get down to it. At the very least, there had to be an overall review, which we have not had.
The UDR in this form is copyright-lite. It is being amended in a minor way and is of course the preferred choice. In some sense, that sends a message that we should be asking why designers think that the UDR is better than the design right, or anything else that is around. Somehow the system has to match the tests properly set by my noble friend Lord Howarth, which equates in some way to the need for a fair return without stifling the sort of innovation that my noble friend Lord Borrie talked about as being at the heart of this competitive industry.
I have said enough. I wanted this debate to get off the ground and I am grateful that we have had it. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.