My Lords, I thank all the supporters of my amendment because they have expanded the argument by bringing forward evidence with brilliance and accuracy. I also thank the Minister. She is right to say that we have spent honest time together discussing this issue in great detail and she has tried hard to understand and reflect upon the arguments, but I have to say that I am disappointed with her reply. As the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, suggested, I thought that perhaps we could come back at a later stage to discuss an alternative that would meet the requirements of noble Lords who have participated in this debate. Like many organisations—I would say all of them—we feel that this is an area of enormous significance in terms of culture change in this country. I do not feel that Section 3 hindered in any way the difficulties faced by the commission when it came to merge.
When three major commissions at different stages of their growth and liberation are merged and, at the same time, another three strands are added, people are brought together to work on a totally new concept. I am not surprised that the commission had a difficult few years. I have merged two organisations and it took me five years to get them to work together successfully and well, so I do not think that that is a good argument. I do not agree with the arguments around wideness and ambivalence or on the fact that Section 3 somehow takes the rudder away from the Equality and Human Rights Commission. It does not; it just puts some passion into those sometimes very dusty legal arguments.
I have reflected deeply on this and worked hard to understand all the arguments for and against, but at this time we need to listen to and test the House to see what it has to say.