My Lords, this amendment refers to the position of the Defence Fire and Rescue Service within the structure of the Bill. Noble Lords will remember that it was revealed in the discussion of the Bill in Committee—the issue had not been discussed in another place—that the Defence Fire and Rescue Service had an anomalous status relative to that of other firefighters within the UK. In particular, while other firefighters within the UK had their retirement age fixed at the age of 60, together with other uniformed services, the Defence Fire and Rescue Service at that time had a retirement age tied to the statutory retirement age. Therefore, it would be 65, rising in accordance with the pattern planned for the increase in the statutory retirement age.
My hypothesis in Committee was that this was simply a slip and a mistake and that people had just happened to miss the fact that a category of firefighters was not covered in the actual language of the Bill. I therefore expected that, once the Minister had taken the matter back—he conceded in Committee that he had not had the opportunity to consider it with any great care—the mistake would be understood and the firefighters would be included with the other uniformed services, having their retirement age fixed at 60, as is the case with the other uniformed services. However, to my considerable surprise, this has not been the case. I understand that the firefighters—and, indeed, the Ministry of Defence Police, to which I will turn in a moment—have met the Minister and that he has turned down this proposition. He has substituted for it the assurance that their pension age would be maintained at 65 and not, perhaps, go up with the statutory pension age, although his assurance was not terribly clear in the sense that it referred to a three-year differential between the statutory retirement age and that for Ministry of Defence firefighters. In due course, when it gets to 68 or 69, as we all live longer, those firefighters would see their retirement age go up—or so I presume;
perhaps the Minister can clarify that later on—while that of their colleagues in the rest of their fire service would stay the same, at 60.
The Minister has one fundamental question to answer. It is an answer that not just this House but the firefighters themselves deserve. How does their job differ from that of local authority firefighters? In what way is it less onerous, when they have to work on military establishments, dealing on occasion with extremely dangerous materials, and occasionally also in war zones? How is their job less onerous? In those circumstances, why should we have this situation in which their retirement age is five years higher?
I wonder whether the Minister has taken the trouble to find out when the Defence Fire and Rescue Service members actually retire. If he did take that trouble, he would find out that the majority of them retire before the age of 60. They retire early, with a significantly reduced pension, and they have to do that because they are physically unable to keep going. A study performed by the Civilian Consultant Adviser in Occupational Medicine for the Defence Fire Risk Management Organisation not only produced data but argued that continuing beyond the age of 60 was detrimental to the long-term health of firefighters in the Ministry of Defence Fire and Rescue Service. If the noble Lord had taken the trouble to find out what was actually happening, he would have found out that firefighters in this service are forced to retire early due to their physical condition or because they are unable to pass the regular physical examinations they undergo to ensure that they can perform their duties to the required standard.
3.15 pm
As I said in my introduction, initially I presumed that this omission was a mistake and I still think that that is the case. However, some pen-pushing bureaucrat is defending his back against men who risk their lives and health for us on a regular basis by producing the argument that if the age of retirement, which is currently 65—even though the majority retire before 60—were reduced to 60, like that of all other uniformed services, this would be the only group in the entire public service to have their retirement age lowered by the Bill. I refer the person who wrote to the Ministry of Defence firefighters to that effect to the excellent report of my noble friend Lord Hutton, in which he said:
“The current public service pensions structure was not designed for modern working patterns and has been unable to respond flexibly to changes in this area and to demographic change over the past few decades. This has led to … unequal treatment of members within the same profession”.
What we are discussing is a prime example of exactly that. Therefore, Amendment 1 seeks to incorporate the Defence Fire and Rescue Service firefighters within the overall category of firefighters to ensure that they are treated in exactly the same way as their fellows in local authority and other fire services.
Amendment 2 seeks to do the same for the Ministry of Defence Police. I ask the noble Lord to answer these questions. In what way are the tasks of the Ministry of Defence Police, who have to carry body armour and weapons at virtually all times, less onerous
than those of the regular police forces? In what way are their tasks different? With respect to the police forces, we have a hint that perhaps the hypothesis that this is all a mistake is correct given that the definition of “members of a police force” in Schedule 1 states:
“In this Act ‘members of a police force’—
(a) in relation to England and Wales, includes special constables and police cadets”.
That is the only definition. It does not mention police forces that report to a police authority. It simply refers to,
“members of a police force”,
and states that that includes the cadets. It could be any police force: for example, the British Transport Police, the Ministry of Defence Police, and the nuclear protection forces.
I do not want to give the Government the opportunity to reinforce their discrimination against Ministry of Defence employees but there is a clear possibility that a discriminatory mistake is being made in this regard. It really is not sufficient, at the 11th hour, for the Minister simply to say, “Oh well, we’ll fix it at 65”, when one considers the nature of the work done by, and the considerable physical demands on, local authority firefighters and Ministry of Defence firefighters. It is important to recognise the nature of the work done and that the categories into which we would place the Ministry of Defence firefighters and police are exactly the same as those of local authority firefighters and normal police forces that report to police authorities. I beg to move.