I repeat what we said at Second Reading. We support the Bill and want it to succeed, not least because many of its provisions were contained in a draft Bill that we produced when we were in government. However, I am not sure that the Government are being as helpful as they might be as regards some of the detail. Clearly, the most contentious issue is that of the exemption certificate. My noble friend Lord Berkeley referred to the definition of “deck officer”.
I am grateful to the Minister for sending me a reply to a number of questions that I asked at Second Reading. I was given the letter—dated yesterday—only this morning. I have had a look at it although, obviously, not as long a look as I might have wished. However, I am genuinely grateful to the Minister for the reply and for responding to the points that I made in our previous debate. The Minister has given a definition of “deck officer” in that letter and said that it enjoys the dictionary definition of,
“an officer in charge of the above-deck workings and manoeuvres at sea of a ship or boat”.
However, I do not think that that definition covers the issue of the minimum level of experience for,
“an officer in charge of the above-deck workings and manoeuvres at sea of a ship or boat”,
particularly as regards the pilotage operation. This comes back to the issue raised by my noble friend Lord Berkeley on the standard of experience that is to be required. It would be extremely helpful if the Minister, when he responds, could give an assurance on that point.
I also asked about the role of the competent harbour authorities. The Minister said in his reply:
“It is a matter for Competent Harbour Authorities to decide who has the skill, experience and local knowledge sufficient to be capable of piloting the ship, and for shipping operators to develop and implement a Safety Management System to provide clarity on the roles and responsibilities of the bridge team when a Pilotage Exemption Certificate holder is acting as a pilot”.
Saying that it is a matter for the competent harbour authorities to decide who has the skill, experience and local knowledge does not address in particularly clear terms how much training it would take to obtain a pilotage exemption certificate in a place such as Liverpool.
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From what I have been told, Liverpool Pilots brings in for training master mariners with command experience as a minimum requirement. I have been told that they undergo six months’ intensive training and are required to excel in local knowledge, as well as completing in excess of 100 training trips and an examination to become a pilot of the fourth class, giving them the authorisation to have the conduct of vessels not exceeding 95 metres in length. The letter that I received then says that it takes a further seven years and three examinations eventually to quality to conduct the largest ships that transit the River Mersey. The author of the letter says:
“We find from experience that this is the right level of training for a Liverpool pilot, supplemented subsequently by regular assessment and simulator courses”.
The letter goes on:
“In order for a Liverpool pilot to qualify within his area to pilot a vessel of 180 metres’ measurement, it would require that he be a master mariner with command experience and experience as a Liverpool pilot for three years, having undergone three examinations and numerous passages into Liverpool with training and extensive experience in the use of tugs”.
The question arises as to what level of training and experience will be required for a pilotage exemption certificate under the Government’s current definition of “deck officer”. I appreciate that that deck officer is not the same as an authorised pilot, but what I understand to be the level of training and experience required of a pilot at Liverpool would suggest that there has to be at least a considerable period of training and experience before that deck officer is given the pilotage exemption certificate. It would be very helpful if the Minister could say something about that and about how, in particular, the Government see the situation.
I also understand that the Pilotage Act, which refers to the exemption certificate, provides that an examination for an exemption certificate must not be unduly onerous—I do not know quite what that means—in relation to the requirements of an authorised pilot. That sort of wording indicates that the training and experience may well be significantly less than that required for an authorised pilot. Perhaps the Minister can comment on that and, once again, explain how the Government, who are supporting the Bill, see its provisions working in relation to the giving of a pilotage exemption certificate to a deck officer.
There was also a suggestion that part of the case for putting forward this measure related to giving deck officers more experience and developing their skills. To an extent, one can see that that argument might be made. However, certainly a view that has been expressed to me—I can only put it across and invite the Minister to comment—is that the PEC is an exemption granted to bona fide masters or mates of regular vessels for commercial convenience in a compulsory port in order that those vessels need not engage the services of an authorised pilot. It is a local exemption, not a formal Merchant Navy qualification, and has no bearing on a junior officer’s promotion prospects. Indeed, some ports will grant exemptions without even the formality of an examination. That rather calls into question the strength of the argument that this is needed as part
of the development programme for more junior officers on vessels. Again, it would be helpful if the Minister could respond on that point.
At Second Reading, the Minister was good enough to provide me with a response about whether the changes proposed in the Bill will be to the financial advantage of any groups of individuals, organisations or companies. The Minister said that the impact assessment for the Bill considered that there would be a small financial benefit to shipping companies, achieved through more flexible crew rostering and the possibility of reducing the cost of marine pilotage. I do not know whether that reference to reducing the cost of marine pilotage would have an impact on authorised pilots. The letter I have received does not say that that is the case. However, the reference to there being a small financial benefit to shipping companies does not quite tally with some of the reasons that have been put forward to us about why the shipping companies think it would be achieved through greater flexibility over rostering, which would suggest that they might see a significant financial advantage in having that greater flexibility. In his reply, the Minister referred to the impact assessment for the Bill, saying that there might be a small financial benefit. I am not sure which camp the Minister is in on that issue.
At Second Reading, I also raised the question of whether the competent harbour authority would be able to insist on or provide for a limit on the number of pilotage exemption certificates that it would give in respect of officers on a particular vessel. The answer that I have received is that a competent harbour authority would not be able to insist on a limit. That raises the question, which I also put the Minister last time, of whether there would be a requirement for someone who had been granted an exemption certificate to exercise their responsibilities in relation to piloting on a minimum number of occasions. As I understand the answer I have received, once you have the certificate, there will not be any requirement to carry out those responsibilities on a minimum number of occasions. If I have understood the Minister correctly—I am sure he will correct me if I have not—it seems odd that any competent harbour authority would not be able to insist on a limit. Clearly, if you have a number of people on a vessel who have the certificate, then presumably they would carry out that responsibility on fewer occasions. Concern has been raised about the implication of this provision in the Bill and the extent to which people will be experienced in the pilotage role if they have the pilotage exemption certificate. Once again, it would be extremely helpful if the Minister were able to give some reassurance on that point.
We indicated our support for the Bill in the Commons and I recollect that I reiterated that support when we discussed it at Second Reading. However, as the Minister knows, we have concerns. They include the experience of people who receive a pilotage exemption certificate and their rank and status; the numbers of such certificates that might be issued; and the frequency with which they might be required to carry out their skills in order to ensure that that experience is retained. On the assumption that the Minister will not support the withdrawal of Clause 2, I hope that he will be able to
address the concerns raised by my noble friend Lord Berkeley and the concerns that I have raised, which have been expressed to me and which I do not think have been fully addressed.