UK Parliament / Open data

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 18 December 2012, in the House of Lords.
Clauses 22 to 50 agreed to. Schedules 6, 7, 9 to 13 agreed to. Schedules 5, 8, and 15 agreed to as amended.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
741 cc469-520GC 
Session
2012-13
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill 2012-13. Brought from the Commons.
Thursday, 18 October 2012
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Viscount Ullswater | 741 c469GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if there is a Division in the House, the Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes.

Viscount Eccles | 741 cc469-470GC (Link to this contribution)

I would like to detain the Committee briefly on a point of clarification that arose out of last w...


Show all contributions (140)
Lord Marland | 741 c470GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as my noble friend said, we did not actually mention the Law Society, but he has respon...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c470GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for that clarification.

Viscount Ullswater | 741 c470GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is no question before the Committee so we cannot have a debate. I call Amendment ...

Lord Marland | 741 c470GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marland

24C: Schedule 5, page 115, line 19, at end insert “, and

...

Lord Marland | 741 cc470-1GC (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Deputy Chairman. This is a government amendment. First, I would like to put on record ...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 741 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have very few comments to make on the substantive point in the amendments before us....

Lord Marland | 741 c471GC (Link to this contribution)

Is the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, already on her Christmas holiday?

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 741 cc471-2GC (Link to this contribution)

She certainly is not. She is working hard on other matters elsewhere, to which I will need to rep...

Lord Marland | 741 cc472-3GC (Link to this contribution)

I apologise; I should have dealt with this amendment in the same grouping. Clause 45, as was righ...

Lord Marland | 741 c473GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marland

24D: Schedule 5, page 115, line 22, leave out sub-paragraph (5)...

Lord Whitty | 741 c473GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

24K: After Clause 22, insert the following new Clause—

“Po...

Lord Whitty | 741 c474GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we return to the issue that I raised in the Minister’s absence during our last session,...

Lord Marland | 741 cc474-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I recognise the amendment and I have just handed the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, a letter ...

Lord Whitty | 741 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I certainly hope that when everything settles down, it will all work, but it is interes...

Lord Whitty | 741 c475GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

24L: Before Clause 23, insert the following new Clause—

“C...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc475-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 24M. Amendment 24L deals with what issues the CMA will ...

Lord Borrie | 741 cc476-7GC (Link to this contribution)

I support my noble friend Lord Whitty. He and the Minister, no doubt, will recall that when the B...

Lord Marland | 741 c477GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am much taken with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, which were underlined by...

Lord Whitty | 741 c477GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I did not understand the beginning of the Minister’s helpful reply because it seemed to...

Lord Marland | 741 c477GC (Link to this contribution)

Sorry, I should clarify that the CMA has both phases. Currently it has the OFT and the CMA as we ...

Lord Whitty | 741 c478GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that, as well as for saying that he completely recognises the n...

Lord Whitty | 741 c478GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

24N: After Clause 23, insert the following new Clause—

“Me...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc478-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the body politic has suffered over the past few years from two major crises—a dreadful ...

Lord Marland | 741 c479GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry that telling the previous Government fell on deaf ears. I fear that it might do the sa...

Lord Whitty | 741 c479GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that. We may well return to the issue, but for now I beg leave to withdr...

Lord Whitty | 741 c479GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

24P: Clause 24, page 19, line 23, at end insert—

“( ) The ...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc480-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we now move on to the other contentious sector: the media, and in particular the media ...

Lord Marland | 741 c481GC (Link to this contribution)

I thought that that was a brilliant speech by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty—

Lord Borrie | 741 c481GC (Link to this contribution)

If the Minister would care to allow some other speakers—

Lord Borrie | 741 cc481-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend Lord Whitty has made a most useful point. There is no doubt at all that this Bill...

Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 741 c482GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, knowing the nature of this Government and the fact that not everyone in it is paid, I w...

Lord Marland | 741 c482GC (Link to this contribution)

As I was about to say before I so rudely interrupted the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, f...

Viscount Ullswater | 741 c482GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is a Division in the Chamber. The Committee will be adjourned for 10 minutes.

...
Lord Marland | 741 c482GC (Link to this contribution)

I will rewind the clock, my Lords. This has been a brilliant debate and I do urge the noble Lord,...

Lord Whitty | 741 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his remarks. When the cream eventually reaches the ...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c483GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Eccles

24PA: Clause 25, page 20, leave out lines 20 to 25

Viscount Eccles | 741 cc483-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to probe the Government’s attitude towards penalties in this part of the Bill. M...

Lord Marland | 741 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for raising this complex issue. In terms of the method...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. It probably needs to be looked at because it see...

Lord Whitty | 741 c484GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

24Q: Clause 26, page 21, line 39, at end insert—

“(3) Subj...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc484-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments have been tabled simply to raise the issue. The Government may well ha...

Viscount Eccles | 741 cc485-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, because his contribution means I do ...

Lord Marland | 741 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

We have had two excellent points of view, but the reality is as follows. Britain is seventh worst...

Lord Whitty | 741 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for his support on this issue; I shall definitely support hi...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c486GC (Link to this contribution)

Very briefly, my Lords, my noble friend’s answer is an abdication of management. If you believe t...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 741 c487GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hunt of Wirral

25: After Clause 26, insert the following new Clause—

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 741 cc487-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in proposing this new clause I am concerned about the impact of the current merger regi...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have a few worries about this amendment. It sounds fine for the companies. They will ...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c488GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I very much support of my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral’s amendment. Key to this is ...

Lord Mitchell | 741 cc488-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened with great interest to the words of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral...

Lord Marland | 741 c489GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment is interesting; on the one hand, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, has made ...

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 741 c489GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not just happy but enthusiastic in my response. There are not many Ministers who r...

Lord Marland | 741 c490GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marland

25A: Schedule 8, page 195, line 32, at end insert—

“( ) o...

Lord Whitty | 741 c490GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

25B: Clause 27, page 22, line 22, at end insert—

“(5) In a...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc490-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment deals with cross-market issues and, I hope helpfully, suggests some flexi...

Lord Marland | 741 c491GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, no one knows more about consumer protection than the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. He had a ...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc491-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that, particularly the reference back to the Competition Act, ...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc492-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have tabled my intention to oppose Clause 29. It is not that the clause does not brin...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c493GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in supporting the thesis of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, I just wonder whether this is ...

Lord Marland | 741 cc493-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will break with tradition and, much to my officials’ relief, read from a prepared scr...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c494GC (Link to this contribution)

The trouble is that it does not tell us why it is there. It tells us something about what could h...

Lord Marland | 741 c494GC (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure I can respond to that.

Lord Whitty | 741 c494GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister. The noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, as ever, is opening my eyes to wider objec...

Lord Whitty | 741 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

Tabled by

Lord Whitty

25F: Clause 30, page 28, line 30, at end insert—

“(d) ass...

Lord Whitty | 741 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have effectively spoken to this under an earlier item, so I will not move it today.

Lord Berkeley | 741 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a very quick, probing amendment. It gives the CMA powers to seek information in...

Lord Marland | 741 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are trying to streamline the processes, as the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, would ackn...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c495GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for his comments. As we discussed in a previous amendment, one of t...

Lord Whitty | 741 c496GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

25H: Schedule 11, page 213, line 24, leave out “£30,000” and ins...

Lord Whitty | 741 c496GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment and the others in this group are pretty straightforward and deal with th...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c496GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I part company a little from the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, here and I shall illustrate w...

Lord Borrie | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

Surely the noble Viscount would agree that these things sometimes have a deterrent value. People ...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I quite agree about deterrents: a nuclear bomb is a deterrent. You have to provide a deterrent. E...

Lord Marland | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I have to disagree with my noble friend Lord Eccles because I believe that you should have deterr...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, I was interested in his comments about the £30,000, the £15,000,...

Lord Marland | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

Can I just clarify that? I did not say plus. It is £30,000 or 10% of turnover, and the Competitio...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. I am wondering why the daily rate should not be a percentage as we...

Lord Marland | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I have made a mistake. It is not “or 10% of turnover”; it is a fixed rate of £30,000—not 10% of t...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c497GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification. I still think that £15,000 a day for a big ...

Lord Whitty | 741 c498GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying that; I was getting a bit confused myself....

Lord Whitty | 741 c498GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

25M: Clause 31, page 29, line 33, leave out “relevant” and inser...

Lord Whitty | 741 c498GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is very straightforward. It is a matter of clarity. Clause 31 refers at several po...

Lord Marland | 741 c498GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can get to the nub of this very quickly. The relevant bodies in this case are only th...

Lord Whitty | 741 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

In which case, my Lords, surely it would be sensible to say the Secretary of State or the CMA—the...

Lord Whitty | 741 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

25T: Schedule 12, page 216, line 16, leave out “6” and insert “4...

Lord Whitty | 741 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments are straightforward. Part of the rationale for the merger has been to ...

Lord Marland | 741 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

I cannot tell the noble Lord why not; I asked the very same question of my officials. It is a per...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c499GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, I have a question in relation to these time periods. I have had ...

Lord Whitty | 741 c500GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in reply to my noble friend, Lord Berkeley, the point would be from when the clock star...

Lord Whitty | 741 c500GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

25X: Clause 33, page 31, line 40, leave out from beginning to en...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc500-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments are a little more complicated. I am not sure that I understand this my...

Lord Borrie | 741 c501GC (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend Lord Whitty has tabled a very valuable amendment here. It is most important that ...

Lord Marland | 741 cc501-2GC (Link to this contribution)

That was a veritable tour de force from the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, as one would expect. Just to...

Lord Whitty | 741 c502GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is six o’clock on 18 December, so there is not much daylight, but I am grateful to t...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c502GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Viscount Eccles

26: Clause 34, page 32, line 7, leave out from beginning to ...

Viscount Eccles | 741 cc502-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am probing to see whether there is some way in which some of these arrangements could...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc503-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am in danger of re-establishing my alliance with the noble Viscount. There are aspect...

Lord Marland | 741 c504GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I could explain to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and to my noble friend Lord Eccles that a...

Viscount Eccles | 741 c504GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend. Can he deal, if not now then later, with this point about an individual ...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c504GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Berkeley

26A: Clause 36, page 34, line 32, leave out subsection (4)

...
Lord Berkeley | 741 c505GC (Link to this contribution)

This is a probing amendment. Subsection 36(4) of the Bill provides for one or more of the CMA’s f...

Lord Whitty | 741 c505GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that my noble friend Lord Berkeley is right to seek verification on this. A lat...

Lord Marland | 741 c505GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, gets to the point. I am grateful for his brevity. I am reliably in...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c505GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister but I wonder whether, within his broad canvas, or whatever, he has ...

Lord Whitty | 741 c505GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was going to leave that because my Amendment 26BF is an attempt to tidy up the provis...

Lord Marland | 741 c505GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I may first reply to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. We will review this in five years’ time...

Lord Whitty | 741 c506GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

26AB: Clause 37, page 36, line 10, leave out “significant” and i...

Lord Whitty | 741 c506GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is really a drafting amendment. Section 35 of the 1998 Act refers to “serious, irr...

Lord Marland | 741 c506GC (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord says, it is a matter of conjecture and we will obviously look at it. I am not s...

Lord Whitty | 741 c506GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that and I beg to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Whitty | 741 c506GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

26AC: Clause 41, page 37, line 16, leave out subsections (4) and...

Lord Whitty | 741 c507GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 41 makes some very significant changes to the law on cartels. At present, the co...

Lord Marland | 741 c508GC (Link to this contribution)

I take from this that the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, agrees with his own Front Bench in the other p...

Lord Whitty | 741 c508GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for saying that he will look at the situation again. I wa...

Lord Marland | 741 cc509-510GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marland

26B: After Clause 45, insert the following new Clause—

“P...

Lord Marland | 741 cc510-1GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 45 gives the Competition and Markets Authority stronger powers to co-ordinate Co...

Lord Whitty | 741 c511GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

26BA: After Clause 45, line 21, at end insert—

“(g) the Fi...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc511-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am extraordinarily grateful to the Minister for accepting that Monitor should come ou...

Lord Berkeley | 741 cc513-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share my noble friend Lord Whitty’s serious concern about Amendment 26B. It goes to t...

Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 741 c514GC (Link to this contribution)

We have a Division in the Chamber. The Committee will stand adjourned until Members have returned...

Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 741 c514GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before the Division, we were debating Amendment 26BA.

Lord Berkeley | 741 c514GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had just about finished, but want to conclude by saying that I hope that the Minister...

Lord Bradshaw | 741 c514GC (Link to this contribution)

I endorse what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. The proposed new clause states:

Lord Berkeley | 741 c514GC (Link to this contribution)

What would the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, think if there developed a debate between the Office of...

Lord Bradshaw | 741 c515GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes. Perhaps I may take another example; the Civil Aviation Authority, which I do know something ...

Lord Marland | 741 c515GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, indicated that he was minded not to support our amendment and what I...

Lord Berkeley | 741 c515GC (Link to this contribution)

Can the noble Lord expand a little on the reasons for when this would happen? He quoted bad pract...

Lord Marland | 741 c516GC (Link to this contribution)

All that is important is that the consumer or customer, by which we mean the general public, reco...

Lord Bradshaw | 741 c516GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the noble Lord would answer my question about how long it will take to bring the machiner...

Lord Marland | 741 c516GC (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State would intervene only if an agreement had not been reached with the various...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc516-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Bradshaw and Lord Berkeley, and the Minister. Th...

Lord Whitty | 741 c518GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

26BE: Clause 46, page 42, line 13, at end insert—

“(1) The...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc518-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this last amendment—which we will all be grateful about—deals with a separate issue of ...

Lord Marland | 741 c519GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, let me assure the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, that we totally recognise the need for speci...

Lord Whitty | 741 cc519-520GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I appreciate what the Minister says about the panels. I am not sure that I can identify...

Lord Marland | 741 c520GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marland

26C: Schedule 15, page 231, line 38, leave out “Omit”

26D...

Lord Gardiner of Kimble | 741 c520GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Wednesday 9 January ...

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