UK Parliament / Open data

Armed Forces Readiness and Defence Equipment

Backbench debate and Debates on select committee report on Thursday, 21 March 2024, in the House of Commons, led by Jeremy Quin. The answering member was James Cartlidge.
Motion that this House has considered the First Report of the Defence Committee, Ready for War?, HC 26, the Eighth Report of the Committee of Public Accounts, Improving Defence Inventory Management, HC 66, and the Nineteenth Report of the Committee of Public Accounts, MoD Equipment Plan 2023-33, HC 451. Agreed to on question.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
747 cc1073-1120 
Session
2023-24
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Improving defence inventory management. Committee of Public Accounts eighth report
Wednesday, 10 January 2024
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Ready for war? Defence Committee first report
Tuesday, 30 January 2024
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
MoD Equipment Plan 2023–2033. Committee of Public Accounts nineteenth report
Monday, 4 March 2024
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Roger Gale | 747 c1073 (Link to this contribution)

Before we start the debate, I should inform the House that while the Chair has no power to impose...

Jeremy Quin | 747 cc1073-4 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the First Report of the Defence Committee, Re...


Show all contributions (85)
Mark Francois | 747 c1074 (Link to this contribution)

The answer to my right hon. Friend’s question is yes. Could he explain to the House that one of t...

Jeremy Quin | 747 cc1075-6 (Link to this contribution)

I said we would hear from my right hon. Friend, and indeed we shall. He is absolutely right. We a...

Alec Shelbrooke | 747 c1076 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that my right hon. Friend has mentioned accommodation, on which I focused after succeed...

Jeremy Quin | 747 c1076 (Link to this contribution)

I support my right hon. Friend’s point. We had “fix on failure” for too long, although it has cha...

Meg Hillier | 747 cc1076-8 (Link to this contribution)

I really welcome this debate, in which five former Defence Ministers are speaking. That is probab...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1077 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that that has been made worse by the MOD’s tendency to purchase off-the...

Meg Hillier | 747 cc1077-9 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend raises an important point, and we could almost have a whole debate about tha...

Alec Shelbrooke | 747 c1079 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to what the hon. Lady is saying. I have not cast my eye over the report ...

Meg Hillier | 747 cc1079-1080 (Link to this contribution)

I am tempted by the right hon. Gentleman to go into all sorts of long discussion about how the PA...

Roger Gale | 747 cc1080-1 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Although there are not that many hon. Members present in the Chamber, it is immediately cl...

Mark Francois | 747 c1081 (Link to this contribution)

May I begin by saying to the Minister for Defence Procurement, for whom I have great regard and w...

Meg Hillier | 747 c1081 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is in the unique position of being a member of both the Public Accounts ...

Mark Francois | 747 cc1082-3 (Link to this contribution)

The Chair of the PAC is entirely right, although in the MOD context, if it is groundhog day, “gro...

Julian Lewis | 747 c1083 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. I know that he is coming towards the end of...

Mark Francois | 747 cc1084-5 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with every word my right hon. Friend, the former eminent Chairman of the Defence Committe...

Lord Spellar | 747 cc1085-6 (Link to this contribution)

The debate encompasses a wide range of issues. My colleague on the Defence Committee, the right h...

Mark Francois | 747 c1086 (Link to this contribution)

We are giving £2.5 billion in the next financial year to Ukraine, and it is money well spent, but...

Lord Spellar | 747 cc1086-7 (Link to this contribution)

Well, it is unfortunately scored as being in the UK defence budget, and in the claim that we are ...

Jesse Norman | 747 cc1087-1090 (Link to this contribution)

We face a world of complexity and threat unparalleled in our recent modern experience. Scanning a...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1090 (Link to this contribution)

I begin by joining the Chair of the Defence Committee, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Sir Jer...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1090 (Link to this contribution)

As Chancellor of the Exchequer, he cut defence expenditure, so there are parallels there, but not...

Lord Spellar | 747 c1090 (Link to this contribution)

Another key feature of that era was the Treasury’s 10-year rule of basing defence expenditure on ...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1090 (Link to this contribution)

It did. If we look back, the common theme —it is a matter of fact, whether people like it or not—...

Mark Francois | 747 c1091 (Link to this contribution)

I hope this does not come across as nit-picking—it is important. The 10-year rule, which was a ro...

Lord Beamish | 747 cc1091-2 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has got that on the record. I am not going to get into a history lesson ...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1093 (Link to this contribution)

It is laughable, as my right hon. Friend says. We need to make sure that we actually invest, beca...

Julian Lewis | 747 c1093 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Beamish | 747 cc1093-4 (Link to this contribution)

No. I am sorry, but I do not have the time.

I now come on to what will happen after the nex...

Danny Kruger | 747 cc1094-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to take part in this debate. I pay tribute to the Defence Committee and the Publi...

Alec Shelbrooke | 747 c1095 (Link to this contribution)

A recent meeting of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly that I attended assessed that it would need t...

Danny Kruger | 747 c1095 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that. These figures seem extraordinarily large to us, b...

Meg Hillier | 747 c1096 (Link to this contribution)

Given what the hon. Gentleman has just said, does he agree that it would be good to have tighter ...

Danny Kruger | 747 c1096 (Link to this contribution)

I defer to those on the Front Bench on what transparency is appropriate, but I recognise the poin...

Mark Francois | 747 c1096 (Link to this contribution)

According to the MOD’s own figures in the latest supplementary estimates, the amount we are spend...

Danny Kruger | 747 cc1096-7 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for that. If we managed to get the genuine increase in defence spend...

Danny Kruger | 747 cc1097-8 (Link to this contribution)

I think we are up to speed on that— the 2030s.

The case for investment in the Army is obvio...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 747 c1098 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am getting concerned because although I do not have a problem with interventions, some o...

Richard Foord | 747 cc1098-1100 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the positive words that have been spoken already this afternoon about the reports from the...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1099 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Member agree that the strategy the Defence Secretary is employing has nothing to do...

Richard Foord | 747 cc1099-1101 (Link to this contribution)

I grateful to the right hon. Member. While I will not speculate on the Defence Secretary’s intent...

Alec Shelbrooke | 747 cc1101-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin) for leading the debate with...

George Galloway | 747 cc1104-5 (Link to this contribution)

On that surreal note, let me quote Rudyard Kipling:

“We don’t want to fight, but by jingo i...

George Galloway | 747 c1105 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not. I am mindful of Madam Deputy Speaker’s injunction that she is fast running out of...

Mark Francois | 747 c1105 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will keep this brief. For the record, the gentleman ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 747 c1105 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that point of order, which he has used to make his point. Le...

George Galloway | 747 cc1105-7 (Link to this contribution)

Pomposity, but not a point of order. The right hon. Gentleman said that we were careful to concea...

Emma Lewell-Buck | 747 cc1106-8 (Link to this contribution)

I genuinely will not take 13 minutes for my contribution, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Our armed f...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 747 c1108 (Link to this contribution)

Before I call the SNP Front-Bench spokesperson, let me just say that the Front-Bench contribution...

Martin Docherty-Hughes | 747 cc1108-9 (Link to this contribution)

Well, this was a debate that certainly went in directions I never thought it would go.

It i...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1109 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the points that the hon. Gentleman is making, but I think that there must be a real,...

Martin Docherty-Hughes | 747 cc1110-1 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and I am glad that his party has joined mine—I think; I am...

John Healey | 747 cc1111-3 (Link to this contribution)

I started by knocking a glass of water over when I came into the Chamber, Madam Deputy Speaker, a...

Martin Docherty-Hughes | 747 c1113 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the right hon. Member for making those points, but I would push him on the ...

John Healey | 747 cc1113-4 (Link to this contribution)

No, it is not. We have a much better solution, which is to legislate for an independent armed for...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1114 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

John Healey | 747 c1114 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister can have his say later.

The Defence Committee report says that capability gaps...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1114 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

John Healey | 747 c1114 (Link to this contribution)

I will not. The Minister has 15 minutes in which to make his point. [Interruption.] Okay, I will ...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1114 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. I have a specific question: does he support our t...

John Healey | 747 cc1114-5 (Link to this contribution)

As has been pointed out in this debate, 2.5% is an aspiration for when economic circumstances all...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1115 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to all hon. and right hon. Members for their contributions, and I thank all those o...

Lord Beamish | 747 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

No, I did not. If the Minister had actually listened, what I said is that our contribution in the...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s clarification. Either way, I think we can all agree ...

Julian Lewis | 747 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to intervene. I did not apply to speak in this deba...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The hon. Member for Rochdale (George Galloway) acc...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman did not give way to anyone so, if he will forgive me, I will continue.

M...

Emma Lewell-Buck | 747 c1116 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says it is important to understand how ready our forces are, so can he tell us why k...

James Cartlidge | 747 cc1116-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to engage with the Committee, as I did during the week on artificial intelligence. The...

Mark Francois | 747 c1117 (Link to this contribution)

On ESG, there have been many references to the second world way today. Is it worth reminding the ...

James Cartlidge | 747 c1117 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. It shows why I want to see us supporting our sover...

Julian Lewis | 747 c1117 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister allow a brief intervention?

James Cartlidge | 747 cc1117-8 (Link to this contribution)

As my right hon. Friend has already intervened, I hope he will allow me to make some progress and...

Jeremy Quin | 747 c1118 (Link to this contribution)

I like a lot of what the Minister is saying. It is right to say that we have, in Poland, Finland ...

James Cartlidge | 747 cc1118-1120 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that. It shows why I have repeatedly said that we need ...

Jeremy Quin | 747 c1120 (Link to this contribution)

Madam Deputy Speaker, as the shadow Secretary of State said, your predecessor in the Chair at the...

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