I rise to support the Government in rejecting the Lords amendments. I will focus particularly on amendments 6 and 7.
Amendment 6 states that
“the Secretary of State or an immigration officer”
could decide
“if Rwanda is a safe country for the person in question”.
It is clearly a wrecking amendment. I wonder whether those immigration officers will go to Rwanda, as I and other members of the Joint Committee did last month, because if they do, their position on Rwanda may change.
During our visit to Rwanda, I saw in Kigali a beautiful city, and we met many very welcoming people. As the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) said, many people in the Rwandan population are refugees, and as such, they are keen to support refugees and give them the best future. We saw the housing and education provision that the Government of Rwanda have made, jointly with the UK Government, to support refugees on arrival, and the level of detail with which they had considered what people may need when they arrive.
We saw a country that has welcomed people from Burundi, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and transit camps in Libya, and accommodated an entire medical school from South Sudan, a girls’ school from Afghanistan and a large number of LGBT individuals from across African nations, because of its relative safety for them. We also saw a country, scarred by the genocide 30 years ago, that is keen and ambitious to work together for a cohesive and successful future.
As for what we heard on our visit, in the words of Her late Majesty the Queen, “Recollections may vary.” I think it would be helpful, as we have heard contrasting opinions, to give a little information about LGBT protections. Under proposed subsection (1)(b) in Lords amendment 6, a court or tribunal would be able to say that
“Rwanda is not a safe country for the person in question or for a group of persons to which that person belongs”.
I was very keen to see what LGBT rights there were in Rwanda, and to learn whether it was indeed a safe country. While we were out there, we learned from a Supreme Court judge, the President of the Rwanda Bar Association and the chief executive of the Legal Aid Forum in Rwanda that Rwanda has an anti-discrimination law in its constitution, which can be litigated on, if need be.
We visited Kepler, a higher education college, where we spoke to students and staff, including the chief executive, who has moved to Rwanda from Canada, and the diversity officer for the institution. We heard
from all those people—the students, staff, chief executive and diversity officer—that it was a safe place for LGBT individuals to live. They did say that there were some who were what they called “quietly disapproving”, among some of the older populations in Rwanda. I note that, while we have been talking, there has been a debate in Westminster Hill about LGBT content in the curriculum, which suggests, sadly, that the same may be true in this country.
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We also met LGBT activist groups, and I was not aware until the hon. and learned Lady said so that they were Government-approved, or that any of the people we met were necessarily Government-approved in that respect. They described themselves as LGBT activists—they were from two different organisations—and they, like others, told us that gay people can walk hand in hand with each other and are able to campaign openly without fear.
Another issue I want to raise is about subsection (1)(c), in Lords amendment 6, on
“a decision-maker considering whether there is a real risk that…Rwanda will remove or send the person…to another State in contravention of…its international obligations.”
This is the business of refoulement, which was brought up by our Supreme Court. How can someone prove they will not do something until they have not done it? That is quite difficult to prove. I note that other hon. Members have mentioned that somebody may have been subject to refoulement more than 11 years ago, and that may be true, but the question is whether it will be true now.
Rwanda, which has the world watching it, has entered into a legally binding treaty. It is very ambitious for its future, and its population and Government are very genuinely caring for those who seek refuge. Why would they breach the treaty? What damage would it do to the Rwandan Government’s reputation to breach such a regulation by the refoulement of people? It would do huge damage, and I therefore think we can trust them. Having met members of the Government and members of the public there, I think we can trust them not to do that.