I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
I rise to speak to new clause 1, which stands in my name and those of the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), the right hon. Members for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) and for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), and my hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow (Kate Osborne). The clause would do two things: first, it would provide that all those with overturned convictions would receive compensation on the same basis, including the so-called public interest cases. Secondly, it would provide for all those with convictions that have not been overturned to receive compensation on the same basis as those with overturned convictions. I will deal with both issues in turn.
Reference has already been made to the number of overturned convictions that have gone through the Court of Appeal. Lord Arbuthnot and I approached the criminal cases review body about 10 years ago to highlight the injustice of these cases. In 2020, the Criminal Cases Review Commission started referring cases to the courts to overturn the convictions—the number of Post Office Horizon cases sent back to the courts has already made this the most widespread miscarriage of justice seen by the CCRC. Many of those cases have been described in quite a lot of detail today, with individuals such as pregnant women and others being sent to prison, including individuals who have since had their convictions overturned.
In April 2021, 39 former sub-postmasters had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal. The court concluded that the Post Office should not have prosecuted them in the first place, and found the Post Office’s conduct to be
“an affront to the conscience of the court”.
What has subsequently come out in the inquiry makes me wonder how on earth some of these people slept at night, knowing what they knew at the time while pursuing those individuals in court. Earlier, I made reference to Paula Vennells, who I understand is also an ordained Church of England priest—she clearly did not extend her godliness and forgiveness to those who were clearly innocent, but who she was quite content to see prosecuted. As far back as 2011, if not earlier, she knew that the Post Office system was not infallible, as other things possibly are in biblical spheres.
As the right hon. Member for East Antrim said, the idea that we suddenly had a huge influx of kleptomaniacs working for the Post Office—that all these individuals were somehow guilty—was absurd. It should have rung alarm bells, but it did not. The Post Office went on
regardless. Not only did it pursue people and take them through the courts, but it took individuals such as Tom Brown to court and then, at the last minute, supplied no evidence, having already ruined those people’s reputations and lives.
As has been said, 93 individuals have had their convictions overturned so far, but there are many more people whose convictions remain unchallenged. We have had some debate on the advisory board about the numbers—I think the figure for the Post Office is about 700, but another 200-odd cases relating to Horizon issues were prosecuted by other bodies, including the Department for Work and Pensions. It worries me that only 93 of the 700 Post Office cases have been overturned.
Some people might ask, “Why haven’t these individuals come forward?” Having met many of them—those who have had their convictions overturned, or other victims of the sub-postmasters injustice—I think that they just want to close this chapter of their lives. They are not going to go anywhere near a court, and in some cases they have passed away. However, I urge anyone who was prosecuted to please try to come forward, although I know how difficult that is for some individuals. It is to the credit of the Minister and the Department that they have tried to reach out to some of these people but, as I say, having met them, I know that is not very easy.
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I come next to paragraph (a) of new clause 1, on compensation on the same basis. Where an appeal takes place depends on where a conviction was made. If an individual is convicted at the Crown court, they can go to the Court of Appeal, and this does not require a retrial. However, if an individual is convicted in a magistrates court, the appeal is taken to a Crown court, and the case must be retried. If the respondent—in this case, the Post Office—does not volunteer to retry the case, the judge could actually quash the conviction.
Such public interest cases receive lower compensation than other overturned convictions, because the Post Office deems that in many cases people pleaded guilty on false confessions and that was the basis of their conviction. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) is not here today, but we have heard before from him about how he represented one individual who was actually advised to plead guilty to get a lesser sentence. Some individuals did plead guilty, but in many cases that was done on legal advice. We know that many sub-postmasters had already been traumatised by having false accusations made against them and, as I say, they were advised to plead guilty to get a lesser punishment. Unfortunately, in many cases that did not lead to a lesser punishment, but it does not change the fact that those convictions are simply unsafe.
Five individuals have had convictions overturned so far on that basis, yet despite, having their convictions overturned in these so-called public interest cases, they are entitled to less compensation than others. I think that injustice needs to be addressed. As the Minister knows, the advisory board, of which I am a member, has addressed this. In the minutes of our September meeting, we say that the approach fails
“to put these victims of overturned convictions in the position which they would have been had they not been prosecuted… the rationales for treating them differently in effect re-victimised them; and it was also contrary to the stated intention…not to run schemes on too legalistic a basis.”
It also goes to the heart of what I think the Minister is committed to, which is making sure that people are put back into the position they would have been in if they had not been involved in the Horizon compensation scheme.
Paragraph (b) of new clause 1 relates to sub-postmasters who were convicted, but have yet to have their convictions overturned. As I have said, there are about 900 individuals who were convicted on the back of Horizon-related issues, and only 93 of them have had them overturned. That leaves quite a few hundred people who have been criminalised by the system and whose convictions have not been overturned. They are therefore unable to get compensation, even though this has not only devastated their lives through having a criminal conviction, but caused related problems of loss of income and other things.
Overturning convictions takes time, and for many, as I have said, it involves a process that they will simply not pursue, because that will reopen wounds that are already deep. When we speak to some of the individuals, they say they just want to close that part of the lives. In many cases, they are terrified of any form of publicity around these cases, because they do not want to be re-victimised, as I have said. New clause 1 would entitle all those with Horizon-related convictions to compensation on the same basis as those who have had their convictions overturned. I know that is possibly a radical solution. There will, of course, be a small number of people who did wrong, so it is right to exclude people when there is clear and compelling evidence of wrongdoing, and not simply the guilty plea.
There is a big difference between a false confession—a guilty plea put forward on legal advice—and someone who has clearly done something wrong. I would not want to suggest in any way that individuals who have done something wrong, when there is evidence behind that, should receive compensation. Some people might think that I am putting the cart before the horse, but it is important to bring the matter to the attention of the House. I do not accept—I think this was a strong feeling among members of the advisory board—that the other 700 or 800 people are somehow guilty of what they were accused of. Again, the advisory board raised that issue, and its minutes of an October meeting state clearly that
“as long as unjust convictions were maintained, which clearly involved 700 or 800 people, the means of delivering any compensation…is seemingly blocked. This is itself a major affront to a civilised state.”
That issue needs addressing. I know that the Minister will be meeting the Lord Chancellor, and those on the advisory body have asked to meet him as well.
There are broader issues around how the Post Office pursued some of the investigations. When we talk about people who are responsible, there is certainly a question mark over some of the lawyers involved in the process who might have some professional questions to answer. I think that automatically quashing those convictions is the way forward. I accept that the new clause would put the Minister behind the eight ball a little bit—I see his officials sweating in the Box—but I would like him to address the issues I have raised. He is well versed in a number of these questions, as we have gone round them in the advisory board, but if we are to bring closure to this issue, leaving the matter unresolved is not acceptable. I feel very strongly about that. I am not minded to press
the new clause to a vote, but I would like the Minister to reply to my points. If he cannot give an answer today, perhaps he could give us some idea of his thoughts on how we will resolve this issue.