Let me start, like others, by saying how extraordinarily pleased I am to see the Bill return to the House today. I put on record my enormous gratitude to the many people who have worked on it, especially the families of those who have lost loved ones, organisations such as the Internet Watch foundation, of which I have been a champion for over a decade, the Mental Health Foundation, the many Ministers who have worked on this, and especially the Secretary of State, who continued to work on it through her maternity leave, and those in the other place. It was wonderful to be at the Bar of the other place, listening to Baroness Kidron, and others, when they spoke, and I thank her for being here today. I also particularly wish to thank Baroness Morgan and Lord Bethell.
A few months ago at the beginning of the year I went to one of those meetings that all MPs do, when they go and speak to politics students in their own sixth form. They normally throw loads of questions at us, but before I let them throw questions at me, I said, “Listen, I have a question I need to ask.” As a Back Bencher in this place we get asked to work on so many different issues, so I grabbed the white board and scribbled down a list of many issues that I have been asked to work on, both domestically and internationally. I gave the students each three votes and asked them what they wanted my priority to be. The issue of tackling online pornography, and the impact it was having, was way up that list.
I thank the Children’s Commissioner for the work done with young people to identify and understand that risk more. Our research asked 16 to 21-year-olds when they had first seen online pornography, and 10%—one in 10—had seen online pornography by the age of nine, and 27% had seen it by the age of 11, so more than one in four. Fifty per cent.—that is half; that is every other one of those young people—had seen online pornography before they turned 13.
It is also the case that the type of pornography they have been seeing is increasingly more violent in nature, and that is changing young people’s attitude towards sex. Young people aged 16 to 21 are more likely to assume that girls expect or enjoy sex involving physical aggression such as airway restriction—strangling—or slapping, than those who do not see such pornography. Among the respondents, 47% stated that girls expect sex to involve physical aggression, and 42% said that most girls enjoy acts of sexual aggression. Some 47% of respondents aged 18 to 21 had experienced a violent sexual act. The Children’s Commissioner also asked these young people where they were watching pornography, and the greatest number of young people were watching that pornography on Twitter—now X—not pornography platforms.
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This is not just an issue in this country. I took a delegation with the Inter-Parliamentary Union to the UN Commission on the Status of Women, where we held a joint meeting with the Women and Equalities Committee, and it was standing room only, with women from hugely diverse parts of the world, including South Korea, India, Canada, New Zealand and many different European countries. I said that in the UK we were seeing younger and younger children viewing online pornography that is increasingly violent in content, leading to more violence in relationships and more
sexual abuse. I asked them which of them were seeing that in their own country, and every single hand in that room—standing room only—went up. They had come to that room because they knew that the UK was going to legislate in this area and they wanted to see what we did.
By passing the amendments, working with the House of Lords, we will ensure that we have age assurance to stop young people being able to see pornography, and not just on pornography sites but on social media sites. We are taking massive steps to safeguard our children and young people, and the rest of the world will follow. Thank you for everything that has been done.
I also want to talk about self-harm and, in particular, eating disorders. Madam Deputy Speaker, you will remember the last time I spoke about this matter, and I speak as a former anorexic. Anorexia is the largest killer of all mental health conditions. Last week, I met mental health experts in my constituency, and they were talking about the increases we have seen recently in acute mental health issues, especially in people considering suicide and in people with eating disorders. They completely agreed, from what they are seeing on the ground, that online content encouraging or glamorising self-harm is part of what is fuelling this rise. That is why the Mental Health Foundation, Beat and other charities have worked so hard, and I thank them for their advice and work. They have long called for better regulation of dangerous suicide and eating disorder forums.
I am absolutely delighted that the Government have accepted and strengthened the amendment from Baroness Morgan of Cotes, because dangerous platforms are not just large platforms. I heard from the group I met last week about a tiny forum that is setting young women their death dates. Two young people had already killed themselves on their death date, as set by this platform, before the mental health experts had found out about it. They have been able to rescue at least two others by knowing about it. Small platforms can be really dangerous. The amendment will enable smaller platforms to be regulated in the same way as major platforms, such as Facebook.
The Mental Health Foundation said:
“We are delighted that the Government has accepted the amendment… This will make it harder for people to stumble upon the worst content and help protect their mental health. The Government is to be congratulated for this important change… We also thank all parliamentarians from both Houses and from all parties who have supported this change.”
I listened to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright), and I absolutely agree with how he set out his support for this measure. It is why I am afraid we cannot support the amendments from my hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr Fysh) in this area.
In particular, I want to make sure that the new criminal offence of intentionally encouraging people to self-harm covers eating disorders. I was grateful to the Minister of State, Ministry of Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), for writing to me earlier this year on 17 May, confirming that the definition of serious self-harm, when it comes to this offence, will cover, for example, encouraging someone not to eat, not to drink or not to take prescribed medication. He confirmed that those provisions were included with eating disorders in mind. Actually, when
we delve deeper into this, we see that it is sometimes not the individual bit of content but the way in which a vulnerable person gets bombarded with content on those platforms that can be so damaging.
Last December, the Center for Countering Digital Hate did some research into that and found that TikTok was bombarding vulnerable users with harmful content every 39 seconds. That is how the algorithm is affecting the issue. I therefore wrote back to the Minister and asked him whether the offence would cover the algorithm as well as the content. I will try to be quick, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I want to put on the record exactly what he said, because I think it is important. He said that
“the offence cannot apply to algorithms themselves. Algorithms are designed to automatically send people material that may be of interest to them. It seems unlikely that if a person merely creates an algorithm and does not themselves send, transmit or publish the communication (for example), they could be said to be undertaking a ‘relevant act’. However, every case will turn on its specific facts, and if the circumstances are such that a person’s action does constitute ‘a relevant act capable of encouraging or assisting the serious self-harm of another person’ and that act is intended to encourage or assist the serious self-harm of another person, then the creator of the algorithm will be captured.”
I wanted to read that out in this place because it is really important that creators of algorithms are aware that there is a risk that if they continue with this behaviour, which is bombarding our young people with this most dangerous content, they could be caught under that offence. Will the Minister, in his closing remarks, kindly confirm from the Dispatch Box that that is exactly what the Minister of State for Justice put in writing to me?