UK Parliament / Open data

Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 6 July 2021, in the House of Commons, led by Michael Gove. The answering member was Cat Smith.
Second reading. Reasoned amendment not selected. Main question agreed to on division (367 to 65). Programme motion relating to proceedings in Committee, consideration and third reading. Agreed to on question.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
698 cc787-852 
Session
2021-22
Department
Cabinet Office
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber

Show all related items (6)
Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Bill 2021-22
Wednesday, 12 May 2021
Bills
House of Commons
Fixed-Term Parliaments Act. Joint Committee on the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act report.
Thursday, 18 March 2021
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 698 c788 (Link to this contribution)

I have to tell the House that Mr Speaker has not selected the reasoned amendment.

2.48 pm

Michael Gove | 698 c788 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

It is a real pleasure to move the S...


Show all contributions (157)
Michael Gove | 698 c788 (Link to this contribution)

That is very good advice from the hon. Gentleman. He, like me, believes that brevity is the soul ...

Rachael Maskell | 698 c788 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give us a definition of “democratic” in view of the fact that when ...

Michael Gove | 698 c788 (Link to this contribution)

Well, it gives power to the people. Fundamentally, all of us sit here at the pleasure of and at t...

Jonathan Edwards | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

I saw the right hon. Gentleman try to answer what I was going to ask him in his reply to the earl...

Michael Gove | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

It is precisely because there have been at least two elections of the kind that the hon. Gentlema...

Aaron Bell | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Michael Gove | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

I am more than happy to give way to my hon. Friend, a distinguished member of the Joint Committee...

Aaron Bell | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State agree that any legislation in this area must work with any parliament...

Michael Gove | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Our approach to the dissolution of Parliament and the calling...

Charles Walker | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that the Fixed-term Parliaments Act was probably the single w...

Michael Gove | 698 c789 (Link to this contribution)

Regarding the coalition years, I think that others are better placed—given that I served in the G...

Chris Bryant | 698 c790 (Link to this contribution)

I will let the Minister in on a secret: not all of us supported everything that was in the Labour...

Michael Gove | 698 c790 (Link to this contribution)

I take very seriously the points that the hon. Gentleman makes, because there are few deeper scho...

Chris Bryant | 698 c790 (Link to this contribution)

In which case, one could conceive of a situation in which the Government were aware of something ...

Michael Gove | 698 c791 (Link to this contribution)

In both the cases that the hon. Gentleman mentions, if there were jiggery-pokery or the Governmen...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c791 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the biggest difference, though, between the situation today and that facing Edward Heath i...

Michael Gove | 698 c791 (Link to this contribution)

No, it is not what it is about. The money spent on elections is an issue in which the Liberal Dem...

Michael Gove | 698 c791 (Link to this contribution)

I will just make a little progress and then come back to the right hon. Gentleman.

We saw i...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c791 (Link to this contribution)

If, as the Minister says, this is about the point at which the Prime Minister can command the con...

Michael Gove | 698 cc791-2 (Link to this contribution)

The points made by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) are nearly always good ones, but on...

Rachael Maskell | 698 c792 (Link to this contribution)

The reality is that Government hold privileged information. In the light of the economic challeng...

Michael Gove | 698 c792 (Link to this contribution)

I completely disagree. Looking at the broad economic situation that we face and what may happen i...

Julian Lewis | 698 c792 (Link to this contribution)

The historical case that my right hon. Friend is making is absolutely incontrovertible. The fact ...

Michael Gove | 698 c792 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that clause 3 is robust and fit for purpose, but it is also the case that Professor Eki...

Michael Gove | 698 c793 (Link to this contribution)

I will in just a second.

The Joint Committee found that the 2011 Act did fulfil its immedia...

Jonathan Edwards | 698 c793 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely echo the Minister’s comments in relation to his colleague. The law as it stands mean...

Michael Gove | 698 c793 (Link to this contribution)

In those circumstances the Prime Minister could immediately, and should immediately, request of H...

Chris Bryant | 698 c794 (Link to this contribution)

Historically, many different things have counted as motions of no confidence—for instance, losing...

Michael Gove | 698 c794 (Link to this contribution)

The formal motion of no confidence that is traditionally requested by the Opposition and has to b...

Robert Goodwill | 698 c794 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister agree that in that situation it would be open to any Member of this House to as...

Michael Gove | 698 c794 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is exactly right. If any Prime Minister felt that the House’s decision not t...

Michael Gove | 698 c794 (Link to this contribution)

Not for a little bit, because I want to run briefly through the clauses in the Bill.

There ...

William Wragg | 698 c794 (Link to this contribution)

What if the courts sought to test the ouster clause?

Michael Gove | 698 c795 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that they would, necessarily. There are people who might seek to do that, but one ...

Jackie Doyle-Price | 698 c795 (Link to this contribution)

One thing that came out of the Joint Committee’s report was the very clear interpretation that a ...

Michael Gove | 698 c795 (Link to this contribution)

That is definitely my understanding of constitutional practice, but—without getting into the deta...

Charles Walker | 698 c795 (Link to this contribution)

On clause 4, will my right hon. Friend confirm that a maximum five-year term will mean that the l...

Michael Gove | 698 c795 (Link to this contribution)

I think that I would defer to others on fixing the precise date, but I believe that that is so.

Aaron Bell | 698 c795 (Link to this contribution)

In addition to what is in the Bill, we have to discuss what is not in it: the conventions that we...

Michael Gove | 698 cc795-6 (Link to this contribution)

Again, my hon. Friend makes a very important point. Alongside the Bill, we have produced a brief ...

Robert Goodwill | 698 c796 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not also the case that, if there were a vote in the Commons that many considered to be a co...

Michael Gove | 698 c796 (Link to this contribution)

Exactly so, and it is absolutely important, as my right hon. Friend points out, that we stick to ...

Chris Bryant | 698 c796 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to test everybody’s patience, but the one time when that course is not available to...

Michael Gove | 698 cc796-7 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important point, but it is also important to recognise that no newly elected Governmen...

Cat Smith | 698 cc797-8 (Link to this contribution)

I begin by saying how lovely it is to see the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution, the h...

Julian Lewis | 698 c798 (Link to this contribution)

I concede the hon. Member’s point that the Act did work as far as holding the coalition together ...

Cat Smith | 698 c798 (Link to this contribution)

I will let other parties answer for their own actions. I certainly do not seek to speak for them....

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 c798 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to sparring with the hon. Lady on another constitutional Bill. Just to come back t...

Cat Smith | 698 c798 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to see the right hon. Gentleman in his place and I, too, look forward to sparrin...

Christine Jardine | 698 c798 (Link to this contribution)

Something occurs to me. Those on the Government Benches might say there was stasis for two years,...

Cat Smith | 698 cc798-9 (Link to this contribution)

It would not be at all like the Liberal Democrats to dig into a position and hold it. [Laughter.]...

Charles Walker | 698 c799 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way, as this is such a therapeutic exercise. It is 10 years of h...

Cat Smith | 698 c799 (Link to this contribution)

If it does not work out in politics, perhaps I have a career as a therapist.

I find it rema...

Aaron Bell | 698 c799 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady asks who power is being transferred to but, as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lanca...

Cat Smith | 698 cc799-800 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right to say this is about power and where power lies. Where we probably di...

Cat Smith | 698 c800 (Link to this contribution)

If I may, I will make a little progress. I am conscious of time.

I want to say a few words ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 c800 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to probe the hon. Lady’s point about when to hold elections. Is she saying that there...

Cat Smith | 698 c800 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, in most circumstances an Opposition will want to have an election. If the right hon. G...

Chris Bryant | 698 c800 (Link to this contribution)

Might there not be a point where the Opposition just wanted to form a Government, because the Gov...

Cat Smith | 698 c801 (Link to this contribution)

I find it difficult to disagree with my hon. Friend. Indeed, the points that he has made, not jus...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 c801 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but that argument is somewhat of a straw house of an argum...

Cat Smith | 698 cc801-2 (Link to this contribution)

I suppose the difference is that when there is a five-year Parliament and all the parties know wh...

Cat Smith | 698 c802 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to make a bit more progress.

I put on the record my thanks to Professor Meg Ru...

William Wragg | 698 cc802-4 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich...

William Wragg | 698 c804 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, this is all my view. The House will have a chance to listen to the utterances of the h...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c804 (Link to this contribution)

May I, too, say how pleased we are to see the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) back in...

Robert Goodwill | 698 c804 (Link to this contribution)

Surely we are just reinstating the status quo before 2010.

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c804 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. No, we are not doing that, and I will come...

Michael Gove | 698 c805 (Link to this contribution)

In this House and indeed in this Administration, there is a distinction between the role of Direc...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 cc805-6 (Link to this contribution)

That is another piece of absolute obfuscation by the Minister—a ridiculous piece of obfuscation—s...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

This is more of a clarification point. If the Lascelles principles are in place and the Governmen...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, and reading what Professor Elliott says, the Lascelles principles would go an...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for being so patient with me on this, but on reading the Bill, I do no...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

I think the fact that the principles are not there suggests that they will not be there. I unders...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way because this is perhaps where we see the signi...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I absolutely agree. What is happening...

Michael Gove | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

That would never happen to the SNP.

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c806 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman shouts from a sedentary position that that would never happen to the SNP...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c807 (Link to this contribution)

Presumably in that case, as with the OECD report on Scottish education, the SNP would just not pu...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c807 (Link to this contribution)

The Scottish Government will stand by and have stood by their record, and have been accountable o...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c807 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to the right hon. Gentleman in a moment, but I will take your advice, Madam Deputy Sp...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 c807 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way if it is on that point.

Michael Gove | 698 c807 (Link to this contribution)

It is very much on that point. That case was brought by the hon. Gentleman’s hon. and learned Fri...

Brendan O'Hara | 698 cc808-9 (Link to this contribution)

In the name of the wee man. Madam Deputy Speaker, I attempt not to waste your time or this House’...

Robert Goodwill | 698 c809 (Link to this contribution)

First, may I put on the record how much I welcome the Bill? Indeed, having served on the Joint Co...

Jackie Doyle-Price | 698 c809 (Link to this contribution)

To emphasise the point that my right hon. Friend has just made, the truth is not that a monarch w...

Robert Goodwill | 698 cc809-810 (Link to this contribution)

That is right. I am a big subscriber to the view that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The situat...

Chris Bryant | 698 cc810-1 (Link to this contribution)

May I first say what an utter delight it is to see the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith...

Julian Lewis | 698 c811 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making a strong case that it should not be a question of the Government aga...

Chris Bryant | 698 c811 (Link to this contribution)

Well, my point is simply that we need to have a level playing field in any general election. The ...

Julian Lewis | 698 cc811-2 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is extremely kind in giving way a second time. I do not think he answered my p...

Chris Bryant | 698 cc812-3 (Link to this contribution)

If there is a fixed date for a general election, there are fewer options for the Government to ma...

Chris Bryant | 698 cc813-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is the Mona Lisa in so many ways. I do not know what to make of that. My point...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c814 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to intervene, but the record should show that the particular motion to which the hon. ...

Chris Bryant | 698 c814 (Link to this contribution)

I think I am right in saying that the original motion tabled by the Government did commit, but th...

Chris Bryant | 698 cc814-5 (Link to this contribution)

Well, the record will have to be found, won’t it. I completely agree with the comments made by th...

Jonathan Edwards | 698 c815 (Link to this contribution)

As a Welsh MP, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would agree that one benefit of a fixed-term Par...

Chris Bryant | 698 cc815-6 (Link to this contribution)

My personal view for some time has been that it is probably for the convenience of the people to ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 c816 (Link to this contribution)

It is a real privilege to follow the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). I want to expand on ...

Chris Bryant | 698 c816 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to do this, but I just want to push back against the words “game playing”. There were ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 c816 (Link to this contribution)

I accept the hon. Gentleman’s intervention about the choice of language, and I will change it. Hi...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c816 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman touches on points that the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) raised at th...

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 cc817-8 (Link to this contribution)

Parliament failed, and it failed day in and day out, week in and week out. It does not matter, to...

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 c818 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is quite right: I did indeed vote for that Bill. I think what has been slightl...

Owen Thompson | 698 cc818-821 (Link to this contribution)

Some people might feel that this place can be a tad old fashioned, but the Bill makes the system ...

Craig Whittaker | 698 cc821-2 (Link to this contribution)

I want to put on the record what an honour it was to be part of the Joint Committee on the Fixed-...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 cc822-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to have the opportunity to make a contribution to the debate. I am sorry that the ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 698 c823 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the point that the right hon. Gentleman agree has just made. He will recall that, ju...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 cc823-4 (Link to this contribution)

I often say that the spending decisions that were taken—although, when they were implemented, the...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 c824 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, but the last line of clause 2(1) reads

“a...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 cc824-5 (Link to this contribution)

The point is that, as I said, it was a necessary modernisation; we are undoing something that, 10...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 c825 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to inform the hon. Gentleman that I still was not born in 1983. If we do not know when...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 cc825-6 (Link to this contribution)

Let me just say that the pattern of campaigning across the constituencies represented in this Hou...

Jackie Doyle-Price | 698 c826 (Link to this contribution)

The truth of the matter is that our constitution does behave in a very dignified way. We know tha...

Alistair Carmichael | 698 cc826-7 (Link to this contribution)

No, we cannot. That is the self-evident answer to that question. I am fairly confident that conve...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 698 c827 (Link to this contribution)

We now have nine more speakers, which means that, allowing for the wind-ups, we need speeches to ...

Christine Jardine | 698 c827 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I can assure you that I will take much less than 10 minutes. In ...

Andrew Bowie | 698 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening to the hon. Member intently. Was the problem between 2017 and 2019 not precisely t...

Christine Jardine | 698 cc827-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Member for his contribution, but I would say that it was actually the opposite. ...

Andrew Bowie | 698 c828 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member is being kind and indulgent of me in giving way. The simple fact is that the reas...

Christine Jardine | 698 cc828-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I beg to differ. For me and for many people I know, the instability was because the G...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 c829 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry that I was not there to see the 1974 election. We talk a lot in this place about the p...

Christine Jardine | 698 c829 (Link to this contribution)

I am conscious that I am running out of time. I accept that it has not always been abused. If we ...

Gareth Bacon | 698 cc829-831 (Link to this contribution)

I join colleagues from across the House in warmly welcoming my hon. Friend the Minister back to h...

Jim Shannon | 698 cc831-3 (Link to this contribution)

May I say, as others have said, what a pleasure and joy it is to see the Minister for the Constit...

Jackie Doyle-Price | 698 cc833-4 (Link to this contribution)

I join colleagues on both sides of the House in welcoming the Minister for the Constitution and D...

Maria Miller | 698 cc834-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to take part in this debate and join many other right hon. and hon. Friend...

David Evennett | 698 cc836-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to be able to participate in this important debate. I begin by congratulating my rig...

Aaron Bell | 698 cc839-840 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Sir Davi...

Jackie Doyle-Price | 698 c840 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the principle ought to be that the electoral timetable should be f...

Aaron Bell | 698 cc840-2 (Link to this contribution)

I could not put it any better than that; my hon. Friend is absolutely correct. I understand the d...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 cc842-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell)...

Jackie Doyle-Price | 698 c843 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is articulating this very well. Again, it comes back to the fact that one of the b...

Anthony Mangnall | 698 cc843-4 (Link to this contribution)

I was worried that my hon. Friend was going to tell me that I was wrong, but that was a delightfu...

Andrew Bowie | 698 cc844-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall), and ev...

Cat Smith | 698 cc846-8 (Link to this contribution)

With the leave of the House, I shall make some closing remarks on behalf of the Opposition. As th...

Nigel Evans | 698 c848 (Link to this contribution)

Minister, we have already had many messages from within the Chamber welcoming you back to the pla...

Chloe Smith | 698 cc848-851 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you very much indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I thank all the very many friends across the H...

Chloe Smith | 698 c851 (Link to this contribution)

I do not have a great deal of time, but I will give way briefly.

Alistair Carmichael | 698 c851 (Link to this contribution)

On this point of certainty, surely all parties are entitled to certainty about the date on which ...

Chloe Smith | 698 cc851-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely glad that the right hon. Gentleman has made that point. I was going to address it ...

Nigel Evans | 698 c852 (Link to this contribution)

I am anticipating a Division, so could Members please follow covid regulations as they go to vote...

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