UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 8 July 2019, in the House of Commons, led by Karen Bradley. The answering member was Tony Lloyd.
Second reading. Agreed to on question. Committee tomorrow.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
663 cc59-124 
Session
2017-19
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill 2017-19
Thursday, 4 July 2019
Research briefings
Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill 2017-19
Thursday, 4 July 2019
Bills
House of Commons
Business of the House
Monday, 8 July 2019
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c59 (Link to this contribution)

I inform the House that Mr Speaker has not certified the Bill for the purposes of the Standing Or...

Karen Bradley | 663 cc59-60 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move that the Bill be now read a Second time.

As the House will be aware, at the e...


Show all contributions (153)
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 663 c60 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely echo the Secretary of State’s sentiment that we would like to see the Executive rest...

Karen Bradley | 663 cc60-1 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make sure that we not only restore the institutions, but do so in a sustainable way, be...

Nigel Mills | 663 c61 (Link to this contribution)

How does the Secretary of State assess her duty to propose a date for an election? In the absence...

Karen Bradley | 663 c61 (Link to this contribution)

The role and duty of the Secretary of State to call an election is as set out in the St Andrews a...

Tony Lloyd | 663 cc61-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am also bound to remind the Secretary of State that it is 909 days today since Northern Ireland...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c62 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the only party in Northern Ireland that is out of step an...

Tony Lloyd | 663 cc62-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid not. Inevitably, it takes different parties to come together to form an agreement. Wh...

Mike Gapes | 663 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State has spoken about an extension until 21 October, and the hon. Gentleman has...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman—my hon. Friend—has raised a very interesting point, and it is exactly the poin...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has expressed the view today and on many other occasions that a crash-out Brex...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I do not accept that. In the end, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. In the absence ...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c64 (Link to this contribution)

If that is what the shadow Secretary of State really does believe and he is not just being select...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I shall come on to exactly that point, but let me continue with this question of a hard border ac...

David Simpson | 663 c64 (Link to this contribution)

We have heard so often in this House about a hard border; who is going to implement a hard border...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c64 (Link to this contribution)

That is not a difficult question to answer. The European Union would insist on a border across th...

Julian Lewis | 663 c64 (Link to this contribution)

My question is along similar lines. Let me just probe a little further. I once asked the Prime Mi...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c65 (Link to this contribution)

The construction industry would itself suffer from a hard Brexit. The border would be constructed...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c65 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in giving way. He says that he can remember the time wh...

Tony Lloyd | 663 cc65-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am always very generous to the right hon. Gentleman, because his questions are always interesti...

Lady Hermon | 663 c66 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. This gives me an opportunity to apologise to the House...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c66 (Link to this contribution)

I am bound to have sympathy with the hon. Lady’s comments. We know that the Secretary of State to...

Simon Hoare | 663 cc66-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. If you will allow me this brief indulgence, Madam Deputy...

Jim Shannon | 663 c67 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern and that of many in this House and outside that, althoug...

Simon Hoare | 663 cc67-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point. The full weight of the law should be b...

Gregory Campbell | 663 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the language is very important. Does he agree that it is equ...

Simon Hoare | 663 cc68-9 (Link to this contribution)

I want to deal with that point, because it was raised by the hon. Gentleman’s deputy leader, the ...

Julian Lewis | 663 c69 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is tremendously courteous. May I congratulate him on doing what the Prime Minister...

Simon Hoare | 663 c69 (Link to this contribution)

I will not go into the materials and whether it needs to be a physical gated fence but, in essenc...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c69 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman’s belief that the Irish Government would give in to any demand from the EU tha...

Simon Hoare | 663 c69 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely on the money, and I do not think anybody in this House sho...

Lady Hermon | 663 cc69-70 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his election as Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Commit...

Simon Hoare | 663 c70 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is right on both counts, and I say this as a fellow Celt—as a Welshman—of a Unionis...

Simon Hoare | 663 c70 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. He is from Swansea—I am a Cardiff boy—but nobody is perfec...

Simon Hoare | 663 c70 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman may very well be convinced.

I am also certain that, even if we were to p...

David Simpson | 663 c70 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that if this mythical hard border were put in place, the Republic ...

Simon Hoare | 663 c70 (Link to this contribution)

What I accept is that the biggest losers would be Northern Irish farmers, which is something we h...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c70 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the hon. Gentleman did not intend it, but does he realise that the comment he just made...

Simon Hoare | 663 c71 (Link to this contribution)

As any of us who campaigned to remain part of the European Union will understand, it is rather ri...

Gavin Newlands | 663 cc71-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the lecture—sorry, the contribution—of the hon. Member for North Dorse...

Lady Hermon | 663 c72 (Link to this contribution)

Let me put a scenario to the hon. Gentleman. Does he believe that if MSPs did not sit for two and...

Gavin Newlands | 663 c72 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I have sympathy with what she says about the MLAs’ sa...

Lady Hermon | 663 c72 (Link to this contribution)

I listened carefully to what the hon. Gentleman said in the earlier part of his speech. He mentio...

Gavin Newlands | 663 cc74-5 (Link to this contribution)

I hear what the hon. Lady says, and she is obviously and understandably passionate about the issu...

Maria Caulfield | 663 cc75-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands).

Baroness Hoey | 663 c76 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to raise the issue of historical institutional abuse. Does it c...

Maria Caulfield | 663 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I fully support what the hon. Lady says, because issues such as historical institutional abuse ha...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I wholeheartedly agree with the point made by the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey). Other iss...

Maria Caulfield | 663 cc77-8 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree that it is important. We know from the emergency legislation on the renewable ...

Gregory Campbell | 663 c78 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady talks about Sinn Féin. Does she agree that, although its members do not take their ...

Maria Caulfield | 663 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to attack any political party, but we do have to call out those Members, particular...

Bob Stewart | 663 c78 (Link to this contribution)

My very good and hon. Friend is talking absolute sense. It is about time that we imposed option o...

Maria Caulfield | 663 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention.

I do feel quite strongly on this matter. I wou...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc79-80 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield). Her final statement, outl...

Bob Stewart | 663 c80 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman, who is a good friend, for giving way. Is it not ironic that if ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc80-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. There is some merit in incentivising people to get in, take ...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c81 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend has given us a long list of issues that need to be addressed and that could ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc81-2 (Link to this contribution)

I suppose it is a sign of the success of Orangefest that it is now so inclusive that even Sinn Fé...

Lady Hermon | 663 c82 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c82 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the hon. Lady will have the opportunity to make her points in her speech, when I l...

Lady Hermon | 663 c82 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc83-4 (Link to this contribution)

No. I have already indicated my position to the hon. Lady. I look forward to hearing her speech—I...

Fiona Bruce | 663 cc84-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to follow the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Nigel Dodds) —we agree on so m...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c85 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Lady aware of the briefing passed out this evening by the British Pregnancy Advisory ...

Fiona Bruce | 663 c85 (Link to this contribution)

I shall comment briefly on that and, if necessary, in more detail in Committee.

This House ...

Conor McGinn | 663 cc85-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my neighbour from the north-west of England, the hon. Member for Congl...

Lady Hermon | 663 c86 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene. I have received dozens and doze...

Conor McGinn | 663 cc86-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. If she will allow me, I will come back to that later ...

Stephen Doughty | 663 c88 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has my wholehearted support on this Bill, not least as a proud devolutionist. I re...

Conor McGinn | 663 c88 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. As he says, he is a proud devolutionist, and I think...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c88 (Link to this contribution)

Regardless of how the hon. Gentleman tries to twist and turn on the issue, the one thing he canno...

Conor McGinn | 663 c89 (Link to this contribution)

The first point is that this is an issue about rights, not about policy. The second point is that...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 cc89-90 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for St Helens North (Conor McGinn). We have possibly s...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c90 (Link to this contribution)

If, for the convenience of the people of Northern Ireland, we were to give in, does my hon. Frien...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 cc90-2 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I absolutely agree. I have worked very closel...

Maria Caulfield | 663 c92 (Link to this contribution)

Children in Northern Ireland still have statements, whereas children in the rest of the United Ki...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 cc92-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. That issue is under discussion. In the talks process,...

Bob Stewart | 663 c93 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is making a really good speech. What pressure is building up in Sinn Féin MLA areas...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 cc93-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Member for that contribution. I do not see what happens in Sinn Féin constituenc...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c94 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very important point about Sinn Féin refusing to bring forward a budget be...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 cc94-5 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the last Sinn Féin Finance Minister—I think it was perhaps the first Sinn Féin Fin...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c95 (Link to this contribution)

I have spoken only on rare occasions about Northern Ireland since ceasing to be shadow Secretary ...

Gavin Robinson | 663 c95 (Link to this contribution)

I know that when the hon. Gentleman was the shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, he ea...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c96 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman, for whom I have a great deal of respect, for his very kind remarks ab...

Jim Shannon | 663 c96 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will remember very well his visit to my constituency and particularly to the c...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c96 (Link to this contribution)

I have massive respect for the hon. Gentleman —we agree on so many things—but there are occasions...

Jim Shannon | 663 c96 (Link to this contribution)

We have be honest about the position in Northern Ireland and look at the facts. Nationalist peopl...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c97 (Link to this contribution)

I do not personally believe that that is a burning issue compared with other issues in the nation...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c97 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his candour on the secondary point. Any party wanting to be in gov...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c98 (Link to this contribution)

To my mind, it is extraordinary that the Prime Minister failed to avoid alienating the DUP in the...

David Simpson | 663 c98 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned Sinn Féin. Would he accept that Sinn Féin’s results at the last ...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c98 (Link to this contribution)

I have enough problems expressing opinions on the state of politics in the UK without intruding o...

Maria Caulfield | 663 c98 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making some excellent points. Does he agree that with the prospect of a gen...

Ivan Lewis | 663 cc98-9 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is probably absolutely right. It is realpolitik. If Sinn Féin is consistent in how ...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c99 (Link to this contribution)

They cannot be put on hold forever. Equal marriage and abortion generate strong feelings in all s...

Conor McGinn | 663 c99 (Link to this contribution)

Sure, what would I know about it?

Ivan Lewis | 663 c99 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is entitled to his position. Other people who know as much as he does have an ...

Conor McGinn | 663 c99 (Link to this contribution)

I would make two points. First, the hon. Gentleman’s constituents in Bury and mine in St Helens w...

Ivan Lewis | 663 c99 (Link to this contribution)

I do not dispute the fact that the hon. Gentleman, in every intervention he has made on Northern ...

John Hayes | 663 c100 (Link to this contribution)

I do not necessarily agree with the hon. Gentleman’s position, but in his defence a referendum wo...

Ivan Lewis | 663 cc100-1 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. This should constitutionally be a matter for the ...

Gavin Robinson | 663 cc101-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis). When I intervened on him, I...

Conor McGinn | 663 c102 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman knows I have a great deal of respect and affection for him. I am sure he would...

Gavin Robinson | 663 cc102-4 (Link to this contribution)

For the avoidance of doubt, let me assuage the hon. Gentleman’s concerns—although in the context ...

Lady Hermon | 663 c104 (Link to this contribution)

It is awfully kind of the hon. Gentleman to give way; I am extremely grateful to him. May I take ...

Gavin Robinson | 663 cc104-5 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, if there is a finding of incompatibility, a declaration will be issued to that effect ...

Stella Creasy | 663 cc105-6 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for St Helens North (Conor McGinn) in paying tri...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c106 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the hon. Lady’s position, although it is very different from mine. Does she recognis...

Stella Creasy | 663 c106 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise that the hon. Gentleman and I are on different sides of this, but if he will forgive ...

Stella Creasy | 663 cc106-7 (Link to this contribution)

If the right hon. Gentleman will allow me, I will make a little progress and then happily take an...

John Hayes | 663 c107 (Link to this contribution)

Now that the hon. Lady has made progress, let me deal with the two points that she has raised tha...

Stella Creasy | 663 c108 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I gently suggest that he goes back and rea...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c108 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Lady has the right to respond to the intervention.

Stella Creasy | 663 c108 (Link to this contribution)

The 1998 Act explicitly says that the Westminster Parliament retains responsibility for upholding...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c108 (Link to this contribution)

I think I raised this point in our previous debate. There is no barrier to the law changing in No...

Stella Creasy | 663 c109 (Link to this contribution)

Let us be very clear. The reason why a woman in Northern Ireland who is raped, becomes pregnant a...

Stella Creasy | 663 c109 (Link to this contribution)

Thousands of citizens in Northern Ireland have emailed their MPs in support of change. Thousands ...

Stella Creasy | 663 c109 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened, and I want to meet my obligation to not make a long speech—an obligation that we...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c109 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Lady has indicated that she is coming to the end of her speech, so do not continu...

Stella Creasy | 663 cc109-110 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

We also know that 66% of the public in Northern Ireland th...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc110-1 (Link to this contribution)

I promise to be brief, as a number of Members have done, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I hope we can ...

John Hayes | 663 c111 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will know that our Supreme Court has determined that there is no general right...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc111-2 (Link to this contribution)

The other point I wish to make is about what my constituents in Northern Ireland want. What do th...

Lady Hermon | 663 c112 (Link to this contribution)

What happens if, with a fair wind, good leadership and courageous decision making, we actually ge...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc112-3 (Link to this contribution)

As my cousin knows, I will always give way to her on other matters in these important debates, bu...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c113 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that it is not the intention of the hon. Lady, but it is the point that has been put for...

Paul Girvan | 663 c113 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that we are veering into matters that should probably should be debated in detail to...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc113-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention.

Let me turn now to some of the other points th...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c114 (Link to this contribution)

I call the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).

9 pm

Jim Shannon | 663 cc114-6 (Link to this contribution)

I did not expect to be called ahead of the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnso...

Bob Stewart | 663 c116 (Link to this contribution)

The elephant in the room is the fact that Sinn Féin just does not give a damn about the Northern ...

Jim Shannon | 663 cc116-7 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention—he is absolutely right. The Sinn Féin of today is...

Diana Johnson | 663 cc117-9 (Link to this contribution)

Having sat through the debate, I think it is quite clear that nobody really wants this Bill. It i...

Stephen Pound | 663 cc119-121 (Link to this contribution)

Lyra Catherine McKee has been mentioned two or three times during this debate. When we discuss No...

John Penrose | 663 cc120-2 (Link to this contribution)

Amen to that, Mr Speaker. I think that is the only way to follow that one. It is a pleasure to fo...

Lady Hermon | 663 c122 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister just used the phrase “wearing thin”. I assure him and the Secretary of State that wh...

John Penrose | 663 c122 (Link to this contribution)

I agree absolutely with the first half of the hon. Lady’s sentence. The sense of frustration and ...

Bob Stewart | 663 c122 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the Minister and the Secretary of State whether there is the slightest scintilla—the slight...

John Penrose | 663 cc122-4 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises a very important point. At the moment, the talks are still ongoing. There i...

Gavin Robinson | 663 c124 (Link to this contribution)

I think I heard the Minister say the hon. Member for Belfast East goes on and on, but he knows th...

John Penrose | 663 c124 (Link to this contribution)

I did not say that the hon. Member for Belfast East went on and on, and nor would I ever do so. H...

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