Parliamentary Constituencies (Amendment) Bill

Clearly the right hon. Gentleman was not listening very carefully to what I said, because I start...

The hon. Lady is starting a most powerful speech on a very important subject. Does she agree that...

I do not think Shakespeare could have put it better. [Hon. Members: “Or Churchill.”] Or Churchill...

It is a long-standing custom in this Parliament that no Parliament can bind a successor Parliamen...

rose—

I will give way later if the right hon. Gentleman will let me continue a little.

What I am ...

The Bill’s proposition is to increase the number of MPs from 600 to 650. The hon. Lady has twice ...

I will talk about that later when I address the size of constituencies and the way in which commu...

I want to cut to the chase. Does the hon. Lady agree that the current proposals are a travesty to...

I thank the hon. Gentleman. One of the really good things about the Bill is the number of people ...

The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) has mentioned Scotland and Northern Ireland. The i...

I welcome my hon. Friend’s very strong point about the island communities.

My hon. Friend has made a very strong point about the difference in the registers and under-regis...

I do, and that situation is reflected right across the country.

Fewer and fewer people are ...

Does not the hon. Lady acknowledge that we have periodic boundary reviews to take account of chan...

I do acknowledge that point and I will come on to talk about why it is important that we conduct ...

I may be metropolitan, but I have seldom been described as elite. Does my hon. Friend accept that...

Yes, I accept that entirely. One of the really good things about the Bill is that it shines a lig...

I am amazed that Government Members are talking just about population and not ascribing any impor...

The proposed system does not take account of people and communities. I hope that we will be able ...

Does my hon. Friend share my concern that the 2 million people who are being left out equate to a...

I looked at those figures last night. Effectively, the proposals will reduce this place not by 50...

I am a lot more sympathetic than some of my colleagues to the hon. Lady’s Bill. How can she guara...

Politics is the art of the possible, is it not? If the Government want this to happen, it will ha...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the exclusion of 2 million voters, whom we know to exist, from the...

The issue of the under-representation of 2 million people goes to the heart of our democracy.

Do the 2 million missing people include overseas voters? What assessment has the hon. Lady made o...

The figure does not include overseas voters. They are not part of the Bill. That issue is for a d...

On the referendum, the number of peers is going up and the number of MPs will go down, but does m...

That is a good point, which I will come on to.

Under the current proposals, my constituency...

The point about geography is critical in Cumbria, where my constituency is. Under the proposals, ...

I absolutely agree.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, further to the point made by the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ia...

Absolutely. The Bill will go some way to making that happen.

The hon. Lady and I share something similar in our constituencies. My constituency stretches from...

The hon. Lady misses the point completely.

On size, is the hon. Lady aware that the Boundary Commission for Scotland has proposed the notion...

The hon. Gentleman makes the case clearly.

The proposed system not only seeks to reduce the...

I am listening with great interest to my hon. Friend’s detailed speech. The Boundary Commission p...

That exemplifies how nonsensical the system will be. If we move ahead with the proposals, we run ...

As a fellow north-easterner and as someone who worked in Sunderland, my hon. Friend knows Sunderl...

That exemplifies what I am saying about the proposals: they will break the MP’s link with their c...

I hope that my hon. Friend will reconsider standing again for this House, because it deserves Mem...

Absolutely.

As we are getting to the nub of why the Bill has been introduced, is it not the case that we have...

That unfortunate intervention was not helpful and exemplifies why people out there get so angry a...

The anger goes beyond political parties. In my constituency, the nonsense of putting two wards fr...

That is what we are hearing in the debate today—cities being split, communities being split, and ...

On community connections and synergies, does the hon. Lady accept that in the time from when the ...

The initial proposals were never implemented, so the constituencies remained the same.

The ...

I have a great deal of sympathy with the hon. Lady’s points about the House of Lords. I am hugely...

The Lord Speaker of the House of Lords has described this situation—the Government seeking to red...

I congratulate the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) on bringing the Bill before the ...

That is very much not the point that I and other hon. Members made. One key issue that I raised i...

I am glad the hon. Gentleman raises that point, because I do not agree with the premise of his qu...

Will the right hon. Gentleman address the really important point that boundary changes should be ...

There are a couple of things I will say in response to the hon. Gentleman. I agree with his centr...

Does my right hon. Friend agree that over the past 20 to 25 years my own constituency has been a ...

My hon. Friend illustrates the point that changes in the size of electorates have to be reflected...

rose—

rose—

Let me just make this one point, then I will give way to the fabulous array of choices I have in ...

Can we come back to reality here? The situation in the highlands of Scotland is that three MPs wi...

The hon. Gentleman is getting a little confused—

Oh!

Let me finish my point. I have not even started my argument and hon. and learned Lady is interven...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Well, I have not finished my response to the hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber. When I have...

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that constituencies in the north-west of Scotland such as Ross,...

I have. But things have moved on. There are modern communication mechanisms. Members of Parliamen...

I will allow the hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber to come back, and then make some progres...

The issue of democratic representation is crucial. My constituency office is in Dingwall. It is 1...

I come back to the point that we have to focus on—the central argument, which I do not think the ...

On the democratic deficit, does my right hon. Friend agree that the Bill risks us fighting the ne...

My hon. Friend is spot on. If we do not implement in time for the next election the boundary chan...

I will make a little more progress, because I think Mr Speaker would want me to do so.

The ...

Order. I am sorry to advise the right hon. Gentleman that I do not have a verbatim recall of his ...

That is very thoughtful of you, Mr Speaker, although I am surprised, knowing of your enormous pow...

I am pleased that the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned the United States, because the kernel of...

As the Minister who took the legislation through the House, I completely reject that suggestion. ...

No, they weren’t.

I was the Minister who drew up the proposals and brought them before the House, and I do not reco...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman once more, but I am keen to make some progress.

I am not sure what role the right hon. Gentleman played in drawing up the 2010 Conservative manif...

I certainly was not “the poor Minister”. I hugely enjoyed my role as Minister for Political and C...

rose—

I shall first give way to the hon. Gentleman. He and I had a lot of fun when we debated the previ...

When it comes to missing voters resulting from the European referendum, the right hon. Gentleman’...

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s contention. The fact is, of course, that individual elec...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, let me start to deal with the Bill, as I said I would. I shall...

I wonder how my right hon. Friend came up with that figure. If we as Members of Parliament will h...

I do not agree with my hon. Friend. The figure is based on how much MPs claim at the moment and h...

rose—

Let me first deal with the seemingly reasonable points about the House of Lords made by the hon. ...

No.

I know that not all Conservative Members were enormously enthusiastic about it, but the fact is t...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Go on.

We cannot allow this myth to carry on. The Second Reading of the House of Lords Reform Bill got t...

I will answer my hon. Friend’s question, but not at length, as I do not want to try your patience...

This has never been about costs. The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office confir...

It is about costs. I can remember standing at the Dispatch Box and setting out how much money we ...

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there would be a more immediate cost if the Bill were passed...

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, which is perhaps the mirror of the point made by my hon. ...

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We were informed by Mr Speaker earlier that the right ...

That was obviously not a point of order, but I, too, heard Mr Speaker say to the right hon. Membe...

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Mr Speaker made very clear that the right hon. Gentlem...

Again, that was not a point of order, but I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he has said.

I had moved on to dealing with the specific points in the Bill, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me just...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

I will, but I shall make this the last intervention so that I can follow your injunction, Madam D...

Before my right hon. Friend reaches the end of his introductory remarks, may I ask whether he agr...

That is a good point. There are dramatic differences among the numbers of constituents we all rep...

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) on introducing the Bil...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I want to be brief, and I want to make this point, because it has not been made so far.

The...

Does my hon. Friend agree that what is really going on here is that the Executive are reducing th...

My hon. Friend refers to the crisis of scrutiny in this place. That is another major scandal, alt...

When the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, the electorate will have 73 fewer elected parl...

A range of reforms must be made. We are losing the Members of the European Parliament, and we hav...

It is a great honour and a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn); I s...

My hon. Friend has reminded us of that previous debate. Does he agree that one of the reasons tha...

I remember my hon. Friend making that point, with which I entirely agreed.

Things have got ...

Does my hon. Friend agree, however, that this is also a matter of fairness and fair representatio...

I absolutely agree that as a matter of fairness we should try to equalise the seats, but it is ab...

May I take the hon. Gentleman back to his point about the number of Members of Parliament who are...

The independent Member is entirely right. Of course, I have to be really careful about what I say...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone). He made a thoughtful and...

Is the hon. Gentleman implying that Baroness Chakrabarti was a Conservative appointment?

The hon. Lady knows that the custom and practice is that when the Government increase the number ...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the figure of 600 to which this place will be reduced is entirely ...

Absolutely. I can remember my hon. Friend making that point when the legislation was going throug...

Does the hon. Gentleman really believe that anyone other than politicians believes that there are...

The facts are in front of us. At a time of global uncertainty and change, we need to reconsider t...

The hon. Gentleman is making an eloquent case for the Bill, but we had about 650 MPs before Brexi...

I just do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. There is no case for reducing the size of the House ...

The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech. Another argument for retaining the current numb...

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, because we are talking about the costs of gove...

I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was listening when I made my remarks about the independe...

What the right hon. Gentleman says is on the premise that this is equally spread, but of course i...

The Library has produced facts that contradict what the right hon. Gentleman has said. They show ...

My hon. friend is absolutely right about that and he brings me to my next point.

Let us con...

rose—

I am coming to the end of my speech. We give our full support in the hope that the Government pau...

I should begin by saying that, like the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass), who introd...

My right hon. Friend will doubtless make a powerful and interesting speech, but does he come to t...

As my hon. Friend knows from previous conversations, I do take that view and have done so, unique...

The right hon. Gentleman does not mention the knock-on effect: a number of other boundaries are a...

As a matter of fact, very few are. Even if there were a few, the net distributional impact is ver...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

In a moment.

It appears that we have cross-party consent, at least on the face of it, to eq...

I am very pleased that my right hon. Friend finished that powerful point before he gave way to me...

My right hon. Friend is clearly right about that. It is a matter of fact, not of opinion. There w...

On the question of whether the Bill is implementable in the timescale set out by its proponents, ...

Yes, my hon. Friend right. That is the evidence that the Boundary Commission gave, but I was alwa...

If we are in the business of practicality, with the right hon. Gentleman’s long experience of con...

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman. My guess is that the proposals will get consent. Ti...

I am sure the right hon. Gentleman is totally disinterested, but I am also sure he is aware that ...

Actually, no. With his typical brilliance, the right hon. Gentleman is alluringly enticing us to ...

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

I will, but let me just anticipate what I think my hon. Friend might be about to say. It used to ...

My right hon. Friend is making a very powerful speech, which appears to be plausible, until we li...

I think that is the nearest thing to a compliment I have ever received from my hon. Friend, and i...

Absolutely. Good idea.

My hon. Friend would be very much in favour of that, but that is not how this place works or has ...

Does my right hon. Friend agree that much of the change in Government policy in recent months has...

I agree that at a time when, regrettably, there is a rather weak Opposition, and when there are, ...

The point that I hope my right hon. Friend and I can agree on is that the Government decided not ...

We ought to have a historical seminar about this. My hon. Friend is only partly right. It is perf...

It was a choice.

It was indeed a choice. What my hon. Friend does not recognise, though, is that it was perfectly ...

I am grateful for the serious attention that the right hon. Gentleman is giving to the points rai...

No, because, as I have tried to argue in the first two parts of my speech, first, I do not think ...

Surely the lesson of our discussion about Lords reform, and of the debate about boundary changes,...

I am afraid that I was receiving instructions to be brief while the hon. Gentleman was speaking, ...

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin). It is obvio...

I agree with much of the hon. Gentleman’s criticism of the House of Lords, but does he want the s...

It needs to be abolished. It is unreformable. It is an absurd circus. I am not a unicameralist: I...

Does my hon. Friend think that the system of appointments to the Lords by the Prime Minister is a...

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Yes, it is. As we are into a debate about the exercise of...

My hon. Friend is making a very powerful speech. I am fortunate enough to sit on the Exiting the ...

Yes, we know that. Again and again we have heard from all sorts of Ministers about the need for n...

I share the hon. Gentleman’s view that the House of Lords should be abolished—I have always belie...

Here is a solution for the hon. Gentleman, given he is halfway towards my position on this: how a...

Does my hon. Friend agree that in recent weeks a key issue was highlighted by Andrew Lloyd Webber...

I can feel my hon. Friend’s hearts bleeding at the news about poor, overworked Andrew Lloyd Webbe...

rose—

rose—

Oh, here we go. My hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) caught my e...

My hon. Friend is making a very powerful speech. On geography, the fact is that three MPs in the ...

I think we should hear from the other part of the highlands.

We have heard that the ludicrous proposals include the meaninglessly named Highland North constit...

That was eloquently put by my hon. Friend. All I can say is that I have a very modest 80 miles fr...

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is also about identity? My constituency of Livingston, which ...

We have heard that point again and again during this debate, and my hon. Friend is absolutely rig...

I congratulate the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) on her success in securing this ...

Is the hon. Lady not an example of that very rare thing, a turkey voting for Christmas? When thes...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his view, but I happen to disagree. I am hopeful that, at the next...

I do not know where they came from. They said they were from Cornwall. They contacted me by email...

I just felt that I ought to put it on the record that I, a Member for a Cornish constituency, hav...

I am not quite sure what the hon. Lady’s point is. From what she is saying, she would not change ...

It is a case of treating other Members, no matter what their political affiliation, with some res...

My hon. Friend is making an eloquent point. The Guardian today cites people saying they are again...

I completely agree with my hon. Friend.

I would like to quote the right hon. Member for She...

The hon. Lady, using the larger figure spun by Cameron, talks about £66 million, but the figure i...

If the hon. Gentleman refers back, he will see that I did not agree with that.

I am sure th...

If the proposals go through, the hon. Lady’s seat disappears and she is not one of the successful...

To refuse something, one has to be offered it. I think that the hon. Gentleman should pay attenti...

rose—

I am just coming to my conclusion.

Let us kick this expensive piece of legislation into the...

Members of my party are in favour of equalisation in terms of constituencies, but we are resolute...

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that not just the stability of Northern Ireland but the overa...

I entirely agree. The hon. Gentleman is not a member of my party, but his party, along with the S...

rose—

I give way to the SDLP representative.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the boundaries that we were offered in Northern Ireland ...

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman.

I think that, in the light of all the arguments t...

It is a pleasure to be able to make a small contribution to this debate.

In the last Parlia...

Which is more important to the hon. Gentleman: a time limit that has been set for us, or the fact...

The hon. Gentleman should address that question to his hon. Friend the Member for North West Durh...

We can see this as a mathematical exercise, but the fact of the matter is that under the terms of...

I am trying to address that point. If we are to have proper democracy rather than mathematics, we...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. I want to get it clear in my mind what he is saying. ...

I take my hon. Friend’s point. I am trying to plead with the hon. Member for North West Durham to...

My comments will be brief. I begin with a fundamental point: the number of people on the electora...

I want to start by saying that I will be supporting the Bill and concur with the points made by m...

Will my hon. Friend explain to me what part of his constituency may cross the border with Devon?<...

My constituency is clearly in central mid-Cornwall and no part of it will cross the border, but t...

rose—

I will make a little progress before I take another intervention.

Cornwall’s democratic rep...

There has been a petition on this and some of my constituents wrote to me about it. I looked at t...

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. I do not know how many people from my constituency s...

Will the hon. Gentleman inform the House as to when he felt strongly about this, because surely i...

I will address that point directly at the end of my speech. As I said, despite a lot of the rheto...

The hon. Gentleman is making a very good speech, apart from that passing reference to Scotland, w...

I recognise the point that the right hon. Gentleman makes. My primary concern is with the people ...

I shall be brief as I know that others wish to speak. The issue has been well aired on both sides...

Does my hon. Friend agree that a constituency the size of a country such as Cyprus is unworkable ...

Indeed. It takes an hour and a half to drive across my constituency. That is manageable for me as...

My hon. Friend talks about the complications that will arise from changing boundaries. The change...

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. There are all kinds of unforeseen, untold costs that will...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Stirling (Steven Paterson) in this important debat...

Does the hon. Lady believe that for the sake of satisfying an equation it is worth while creating...

My constituency is a good example of the democratic deficit that the Boundary Commission review i...

I refute the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion that this about an equation. It is not a fiction about m...

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who is absolutely right.

In the 2017 registration fi...

My hon. Friend is making an eloquent argument. Rather than changing all the rules halfway through...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that, because I was about to talk about my constituen...

Will my hon. Friend give way?

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I am going to make some progress because there are still Members who want to speak.

Along w...

Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?

I will.

When that manifesto was drawn up, I am absolutely sure that the people who did so did not think t...

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point, but I still maintain that I was elected on a manifesto...

Under the terms of the boundary review, Port Talbot, the town at the heart of my Aberavon constit...

Does my hon. Friend think that it is fair that some votes will not be counted because the Governm...

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. This is a barefaced gerrymander on so many levels, one of...

It has been interesting to listen to the views of colleagues from across the House about the Boun...

Thank you for calling me to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker—

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Quest...