UK Parliament / Open data

Defence Spending

Backbench debate on Thursday, 12 March 2015, in the House of Commons, led by John Baron. The answering member was Philip Dunne.
Twenty-seventh backbench debate (part one). Motion that this House believes that defence spending should be set to a minimum of two per cent of GDP in accordance with the UK's NATO commitment. Agreed to on division (37 to 3).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
594 cc428-487 
Session
2014-15
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
John Bercow | 594 c428 (Link to this contribution)

I will very likely want to impose some time limit, but I will make a judgment on that after the d...

John Baron | 594 cc428-9 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House believes that defence spending should be set to a minimum of...


Show all contributions (110)
Jack Lopresti | 594 c429 (Link to this contribution)

While I disagree with my hon. Friend about misguided previous military engagements—I do not think...

John Baron | 594 c429 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend and I may disagree about whether our interventions were misguided, but he makes a ...

James Gray | 594 c429 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that two of the most chilling interventions in recent weeks have been, ...

John Baron | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)

I can only agree with my hon. Friend. The idea that British brigades would serve within American ...

Matthew Offord | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)

Like my hon. Friend, I am suffering from flu.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the interventi...

John Baron | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend. One of the intended consequences of our misguided intervention in Ir...

John Bercow | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)

In deference to the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell), I t...

John Baron | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)

Whatever it is called, the glass of water is gratefully received.

John Baron | 594 cc430-1 (Link to this contribution)

If I go down, hon. Members will know why.

Falling defence budgets across NATO have embolden...

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park | 594 c431 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech and I agree with every word he has said so far. If tre...

John Baron | 594 c431 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. That point is best encapsulated in the recent statistic f...

Julian Smith | 594 c431 (Link to this contribution)

I am sympathetic to many of my hon. Friend’s arguments, but does he not need to make it clear tha...

John Baron | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that we inherited a financial shambles, as I have said many times before, but if we are p...

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)

It may be worth reflecting on the fact that in 2010 we spent 2.5% of GDP, so considerable cuts ha...

John Baron | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)

I made the point earlier that defence spending as a percentage of GDP has been falling under this...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the point that my hon. Friend makes about maritime patrol aircraft. It is urgent if ...

John Baron | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a valid point.

With these major shortcomings in our ...

Richard Drax | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. If we see defence cuts of another 10% after the elect...

John Baron | 594 c433 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. He makes a very valid point, but time is pressing and thi...

Paul Flynn | 594 c433 (Link to this contribution)

I am following the hon. Gentleman’s speech with great admiration. He talks about banishing demons...

Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c433 (Link to this contribution)

Order. In fairness, Mr Flynn, you have just asked to be put on the speaking list. I want to hear ...

John Baron | 594 cc433-4 (Link to this contribution)

All I will say is that we can have our own opinions about those misguided interventions, or inter...

Dai Havard | 594 cc434-5 (Link to this contribution)

I would guess that many hon. Members will make contributions about the symbolism of the 2% target...

Bob Stewart | 594 c435 (Link to this contribution)

On urgent operational requirements, the key is in the wording. We do not necessarily have any ide...

Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c435 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Again, the hon. Gentleman wishes to speak later. Please keep something back. Do not use it...

Dai Havard | 594 c436 (Link to this contribution)

Obviously, yes, we will continue to need them. I am trying to make the point that this became the...

Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c436 (Link to this contribution)

That was a perfect example of taking up to 10 minutes. If we all stick to that, everybody will ge...

Rory Stewart | 594 cc436-7 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr Havard) both for his service ...

Derek Twigg | 594 c437 (Link to this contribution)

Is not part of the problem of dealing with these threats having a strategy in the first place? Th...

Rory Stewart | 594 cc437-440 (Link to this contribution)

That is a fundamental point, so let me deal with it briefly. We need to work from the assumption ...

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 cc440-1 (Link to this contribution)

We have heard three excellent speeches, and I found very little to disagree with in any of them, ...

John Glen | 594 c441 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is making some characteristically wise observations, and I think we all agree about...

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 cc441-2 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right: it must be spent properly. The 2% commitment sends signals, and give...

Malcolm Rifkind | 594 c442 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree with what has just been said by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms St...

Richard Drax | 594 c442 (Link to this contribution)

May I counter that argument by saying that, with defence, if we cut ships, regiments or planes, w...

Malcolm Rifkind | 594 cc442-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend helps to take me to exactly the next point I was going to make. What also enabled ...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 594 cc445-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to participate in this debate. I commend all who have spoken, especially the Cha...

Richard Drax | 594 c446 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening intently to the right hon. Gentleman’s excellent speech. Does he agree that we do ...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 594 c446 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The military charities play an important role i...

Mark Francois | 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)

Specifically on injured service personnel, I would like to give the House just one example of how...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that. I have the greatest respect for the Minister and I know from our conversations...

Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)

I call Sir Menzies Campbell.

1 pm

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 cc447-8 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am not sure whether to call you colonel on this occasion.

I...

Lord Beamish | 594 c448 (Link to this contribution)

It is a fact that in spring 2010 the Labour Government produced a Green Paper, which would have f...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 cc448-9 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right about that. I know a bit about this because I was invited by the then...

Dai Havard | 594 c449 (Link to this contribution)

May I take the right hon. and learned Gentleman back a little to the defence and security review?...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 cc449-450 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a very sound point. I am sorry that I cannot give any commitments in rel...

Mark Hendrick | 594 c450 (Link to this contribution)

When the cold war ended in the early 1990s, the established view was that there would be a peace ...

Julian Lewis | 594 c451 (Link to this contribution)

In endorsing that important point, may I point out that, during the cold war in the 1980s, we wer...

Mark Hendrick | 594 c451 (Link to this contribution)

I was not aware of that fact, but I totally concur with the idea of spending anything up to 5%. A...

Derek Twigg | 594 c451 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very good point about the continual use of the Air Force. That pressure on...

Mark Hendrick | 594 cc451-2 (Link to this contribution)

That is the point I am making. As I have said, we may soon be in a position where all our defence...

Peter Luff | 594 cc452-5 (Link to this contribution)

As for others who have spoken in this debate, it is likely that this will be my last debate in Pa...

Dai Havard | 594 c454 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making an important point. The Defence Committee in reports in this Parliam...

Peter Luff | 594 cc454-6 (Link to this contribution)

I could not agree with the hon. Gentleman more strongly. That is the precise figure that I have i...

Paul Flynn | 594 cc456-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a happy coincidence that this debate follows the statement on the Ebola crisis and what wil...

Richard Ottaway | 594 c458 (Link to this contribution)

I enjoyed listening to the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). It is 32 years since I firs...

Julian Lewis | 594 c458 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot resist pointing out that the second name on the motion today, which is

“That this ...

Richard Ottaway | 594 cc458-9 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can start again.

What is behind this debate, I think, is a fear of cuts. I congra...

Peter Luff | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)

May I clarify one important point of detail? Early-day motion 757 as originally printed referred ...

Richard Ottaway | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)

I used the figure of 20% for effect, rather than for any serious argument.

On the defence b...

Dai Havard | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Dai Havard | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)

The Defence Committee produced a report in 2009 after we visited Russia because of the Georgian c...

Richard Ottaway | 594 cc459-460 (Link to this contribution)

I hang on every word of the reports of the Defence Committee. They are authoritative, powerful an...

Lord Soames of Fletching | 594 c460 (Link to this contribution)

Although I entirely agree with my right hon. Friend about the changing nature of warfare, does he...

Richard Ottaway | 594 cc460-1 (Link to this contribution)

There is no doubt about that, but the point that I and others make is that the threat is not stat...

Jim Shannon | 594 cc461-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for giving us the opportunity to have this debate, and t...

Bernard Jenkin | 594 cc464-5 (Link to this contribution)

May I first remark upon the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash)? He...

John Redwood | 594 c465 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not also the case that if someone belongs to a club, they have to pay the subscription? We ...

Bernard Jenkin | 594 cc465-6 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and it should not be forgotten that our subscription to the EU is also written into legislat...

Baroness Primarolo | 594 cc466-7 (Link to this contribution)

Order. May I remind hon. Members that we need to conclude the debate by 3.30 pm to allow for the ...

Nick Harvey | 594 cc467-9 (Link to this contribution)

I start by apologising because, as I explained to Mr Speaker, a long-standing engagement elsewher...

Simon Reevell | 594 cc469-471 (Link to this contribution)

Last August, I was reminded of something that happened to me more than 25 years earlier. Back the...

Geoffrey Cox | 594 cc471-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury (Simon Reevell), who has ...

Richard Drax | 594 cc472-5 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, have been awestruck by what I have heard this afternoon, not least the speech we have jus...

Bob Stewart | 594 c475 (Link to this contribution)

Twenty five years ago, we spent more than 4% of our gross national product on defence. There were...

Nigel Evans | 594 c475 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend knows, I back the minimum 2% spend of GDP on defence. He knows how important th...

Bob Stewart | 594 cc475-6 (Link to this contribution)

I was born close to Samlesbury, so I know it well. I certainly applaud that news.

Leaders o...

Julian Lewis | 594 cc476-8 (Link to this contribution)

Not for the first time, my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) has done...

Lord Beamish | 594 cc478-9 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a very good debate. We have heard 19 speeches from Members in all parts of the Hous...

James Gray | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)

I know of the hon. Gentleman’s personal commitment to defence; he is passionate about it, as we a...

Lord Beamish | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)

Well, what I am not being is dishonest, which is what the Government’s position is. I shall reite...

Lord Beamish | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)

No, it is not the same, because the Government and the hon. Gentleman have got the Chancellor of ...

Peter Luff | 594 cc480-1 (Link to this contribution)

I genuinely want this to be a bipartisan debate, but could the hon. Gentleman clarify the shadow ...

Lord Beamish | 594 c481 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the hon. Gentleman is not standing for re-election, but he needs to understand that t...

Simon Reevell | 594 c481 (Link to this contribution)

In passing, may I point out that the quotes recently attributed to me were not in fact mine? Is t...

Lord Beamish | 594 c481 (Link to this contribution)

Not at all, because I am actually on the hon. Gentleman’s side in trying to expose the Government...

Simon Reevell | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)

This afternoon’s debate has been contributed to by a large number of people who put a belief in d...

Lord Beamish | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)

I am a very thin-skinned individual, as people know, and I am wounded by the hon. Gentleman’s sug...

Lord Beamish | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)

Well, it might be party politics, but if I have exposed the inconsistency between what the Chance...

Philip Dunne | 594 cc482-3 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a timely debate, secured by my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (...

Lord Beamish | 594 c483 (Link to this contribution)

It is a sensible way forward to ensure, as I said in the debate last week, that every single piec...

Philip Dunne | 594 cc483-4 (Link to this contribution)

The only comfort that this House can take from the Opposition’s position is that one of the very ...

Philip Dunne | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)

No, the hon. Gentleman has had his chance. The defence budget is in balance and our plans are aff...

Mark Hendrick | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister tell the House how much money was wasted in the Government’s decision to move t...

Philip Dunne | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, it cost just under £100 million to make that decision, which is substantially less than the ...

Lord Soames of Fletching | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate Conservative Ministers on making such a tremendous improvement to the capital budg...

Philip Dunne | 594 cc484-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for his advice. It is the case that vast majority of the headcount r...

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 c485 (Link to this contribution)

Yesterday I suggested to the Prime Minister that he might be just a tad embarrassed by the fact t...

Philip Dunne | 594 cc485-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will come on to the issue of the 2% in a moment. We are not falling below it and we do not inte...

John Baron | 594 cc486-7 (Link to this contribution)

I want to thank all hon. Members for their contributions. There have been many good speeches here...

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