Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

The Minister says that she has been in consultation with the pub industry. I will phrase the ques...

The review was always built into the process, because we wanted to look at how the measure was wo...

It is always a singular pleasure for this House to gather to discuss what we can do to support ou...

I am conjuring the image of the hon. Gentleman mounting a moving bus. On the new clauses and amen...

If the hon. Gentleman is talking about the amendment we tabled and that the Government voted agai...

Surely at the very kernel of any amendment is the fact that we are losing pubs every week right n...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point and precisely expressing the passion which ...

The shadow Minister has listed many people who have been involved in the debate on one side or th...

The hon. Gentleman has a valid point. We have all received a huge number of representations from ...

Does my hon. Friend agree that all the ins and outs, ups and downs and unknowns of what the Gover...

I do. You will be glad to know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that I will come on to new clause 2 in more de...

The hon. Gentleman is giving a terrific roll-call of his party’s MPs who are apparently now stand...

I think the moment of amnesia is the hon. Gentleman’s, because all the Members I have listed so f...

The hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that I launched a strong campaign some months ago t...

I am glad I was able to facilitate that magic moment.

I have not finished listing members y...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one way we can all support local pubs, whether in urban or rur...

The hon. Gentleman mentions planning and whether pubs can expand, and it is important that pubs h...

The hon. Gentleman has treated us to a tour of the country and listed some 30 or 40 MPs who have ...

Many contributions that hon. Members have made are important to their constituents and they will ...

The hon. Gentleman is being generous with his time, but earlier he did not address my question. I...

I take issue with the idea that the only pubs that are being closed and turned into supermarkets ...

The hon. Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths) asked my hon. Friend what he is doing to help, and ...

I certainly do. The hon. Member for Burton had the unrivalled pleasure of listening to a day and ...

rose—

I did not want to take many more interventions because many other Members wish to speak. However,...

The shadow Minister is making an absolutely crucial point. I think he will have heard, as I did, ...

I am not sure that I would necessarily accept that we are suggesting those companies are wrath-de...

And I can tell the hon. Gentleman that he is running out of time.

I have just been waiting for the right hon. Gentleman to arrive, Mr Deputy Speaker. The debate ba...

I am delighted to speak at this important stage of this important Bill. I commend my hon. Friend ...

The hon. Gentleman hit the nail on the head when he called this a matter of fairness. Whether it ...

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. It was Punch Taverns’ acquisition spree that took the lea...

I am a little confused. The hon. Gentleman has not mentioned the economic impact that his free-of...

I am delighted that my hon. Friend has raised that issue. So let us all be clear; the clause, in ...

The Minister has just said that she wants to reduce the limit of the pub adjudicator from 500 to ...

That is helpful but I shall make it clear; the point of new clause 2 is that it is a stand-alone ...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I remind the House of what was said by the BIS Select Committee in its follow-up report in 2011—<...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Let me finish my point and I will give way. The Select Committee said:

“The BBPA (British B...

Like the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray), I am seeking clarification on smal...

I thought I had given clarity. I ask the hon. Lady and all hon. Members to read this detailed new...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will briefly, but I have covered the point. I do not think I could make it any more clearly, bu...

The point is not so much about whether the specific paragraph excludes microbrewers and small fam...

I will put on record strongly that there are many small pub companies and breweries that run thei...

I wish to reinforce the hon. Gentleman’s point that new clause 2 is precisely about a free market...

I share the shadow Minister’s bafflement about that, and I am delighted that we have a strong gro...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is quite extraordinary that there seems to be such a strong...

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I repeat that if we believe in competition, an open marke...

The hon. Gentleman is generous in giving way and I appreciate that, especially as he knows that I...

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is simply wrong. I can send him the e-mails I have received f...

The hon. Gentleman is hitting on a really important point. These big pub companies are often hera...

Absolutely. The debt level is still in the billions, and the hon. Gentleman will be aware of the ...

My hon. Friend mentions the high number of pubs that have closed, but there is also the personal ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Every pub is a story about a community, and a story about the...

I have a sense of déjà vu as I rise to speak about this subject yet again. I shall confine my rem...

Does not the history of pubs and beer in this country show that the unintended consequences of le...

I understand that argument, and I have some sympathy for it. However, the hon. Gentleman referred...

I can reassure the House that I will not be speaking for 40 minutes, nor will I be reading off a ...

A little bit of the beer orders story is conveniently forgotten, which is that it was not the Gov...

Once again the hon. Gentleman talks about big business as if it is a bad thing. I like big busine...

The hon. Gentleman is speaking for big brewers and I understand his perspective, but what about c...

The hon. Gentleman has read up on this subject. I refer him to the Office of Fair Trading report ...

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is an enormous inequality of bargaining power in the br...

I support big and small businesses. The hon. Gentleman should note that the Society of Independen...

indicated dissent.

The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but it is true. The hon. Member for Leeds North West tries to...

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is a massive inequality in bargaining power between the...

Of course; this is a market and there is always going to be an inequality of bargaining power. If...

I have huge respect for the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) and for his colleague, the hon. M...

Order. Order—[Interruption.] Mr Graham, do not pull a face. It does not help. Mr Griffiths is the...

I hope that I was very clear, but if you want me to repeat my point to my hon. Friend the Member ...

I assure you that I do not. I call Mr Griffiths.

I thank my hon. Friend for making a good point. When we are talking about scale, it is true that ...

But can my hon. Friend tell me why so many tied publicans are going out of business? Why is that ...

I understand my hon. Friend’s concern, and I do not defend the fact that there have been bad prac...

Will my hon. Friend explain the difference between contracts that are negotiated at the outset an...

My hon. Friend has shown great interest in this issue. She has done a great job in standing up fo...

I have a connection with a tied house that is run by a family member, and I have looked into this...

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. As he says, some people are desperate to get a pub. They ...

The hon. Gentleman is being incredibly indulgent to the queue of Members trying to intervene on h...

rose—

I haven’t finished yet. My other point is that the new clause—

Order.

I understand the intentions behind the hon. Gentleman’s new clause, but its fundamental aim is to...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. For the record, does he agree that if someone disagrees with ...

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I saw that look in your eye, so I shall try to make some progress.<...

rose—

I think I have been fairly generous, but I will of course give way to the hon. Gentleman.

The most fundamental dishonesty is the suggestion that the new clause would abolish the beer tie....

I think I found a question in the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. Given that he spoke for only 40 ...

rose—

I have given way enough, so I will move on, because I want to make the following point to allow c...

I rise to support new clause 2. It was interesting to listen to the hon. Member for Burton (Andre...

I am delighted that the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned Brains, because I understand that it d...

The concern is not warranted. If new clause 2 came in and tenants were able to choose what beers ...

My constituent, the owner of the fantastic St Austell Brewery, has recently told me that if new c...

The hon. Member for Leeds North West made it perfectly clear—

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

No, I will not. The hon. Member for Leeds North West made it clear that the detail in new clause ...

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman a simple question? He has quoted Brains, a small brewer in his...

It has already been said that Brains has misgivings about it. I am saying—[Interruption.] Of cour...

I know that it is unusual for an Opposition Whip to speak in a debate, but Brains is actually bas...

That is a useful piece of information from my hon. Friend whose seat includes the headquarters an...

We have had a fractious debate today. The responsibility for that can be placed firmly at the doo...

I completely agree with my hon. Friend’s analysis about plucking the figure of 350 out of the air...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is one of the problems of trying to make policy on the h...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful and impassioned speech. Does he not recognise that the Minist...

My hon. Friend, with his emollient and soothing words, makes a fair point. The Minister has done ...

I do not know whether I can take on one of the characters from “The Lord of the Rings” and better...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, even though he would not give way to me.

I think that I was pretty generous in giving way. The hon. Gentleman has done a lot for beer and ...

I think that the best protection is offered by new clause 2, with the market rent only option. Ti...

My hon. Friend makes a powerful case. Does he agree that tied tenants, such as those of the Monkw...

Absolutely. All we are arguing for is fairness—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Burton asks fr...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the tied pub concept is old-fashioned and antiquated in the 21st c...

The demise of the Club and Institute Union, and the working men’s clubs, is a huge issue, certain...

I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for not pressing amendments 41, 43 and 44. However, I want to...

We have had a lively debate on the various amendments before us. The hon. Member for Chesterfield...

The hon. Lady to some extent predicted what I am going to say. People who listened to the hon. Me...

Indeed. I am glad that that amendment did not ultimately form part of the Bill, as that principle...

If there is a market rent review in two years, will it be sufficiently rigorous to satisfy tenant...

I can give an assurance that the review will be rigorous and that, in response to it, there will ...

The Minister is attempting to straddle a very difficult line. She claims that we should believe t...

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that it would be Liberal Democrat policy. Clearly, we are in a...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 3—Prompt Payment Code,...

This group of amendments is seeking to address the very significant issue of businesses paying th...

Having worked all my life in the construction industry, I am very much aware of retention issues....

My hon. Friend speaks from experience. That is certainly the experience of many contractors, and ...

rose—

I have come to the end on that really important point, but I happily give way to my hon. Friend.<...

My hon. Friend may be approaching the end, but if I am any judge, I know she is nowhere near the ...

That was very kind of my hon. Friend, and I am grateful to him. I will continue to campaign, beca...

I hope I am right in thinking that I can speak about any of the amendments in the new clause 1 ba...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), and I should ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to make the case for a level playing field when it comes to th...

I thank my hon. Friend for making that valid point. The bigger companies have to understand that ...

I totally hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying, and I agree that small businesses are the backb...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that valid point. I shall come to that matter late...

My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head, because this is not a small problem for small businesse...

Yes, I am aware of that research, and late payment is a major problem. It is not just a transient...

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech on this important subject. He will probably be aware...

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. It is not morally or structurally fair for a small busine...

One reason why a fair system for recovering payment is needed is that small businesses do not hav...

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. I have seen larger businesses behave in a way that smaller bu...

Is there not a problem with the hon. Gentleman’s idea? As I understand it, it is unlawful for any...

I take the right hon. Gentleman’s point. I have asked the Minister to give the issue some thought...

In Committee, we proposed an amendment similar to my hon. Friend’s new clauses. We suggested that...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clarifying that point. I am prompted by a sedentary comment t...

Is it not also the case that late payment and issues around cash flow affect a business’s ability...

Of course they do. Every £1,000 not received has an impact on whether a business can prove to a p...

I agree with my hon. Friend entirely on that. Does he agree that if a prompt payment code allows ...

It most definitely does. Prompt payment in my business experience is 30 days. That is fair and pr...

I am delighted to be called to speak in this debate and apologise to the shadow Minister and to t...

The hon. Gentleman is very gracious in giving way and is making a moving speech about his experie...

I understand why the hon. Lady wishes to push new clause 4. I have read the Minister’s response i...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that many of the late payment problems, particularly in manufacturi...

I could not agree more. When I tot up in my head the amount of interest that I have paid on a bus...

I am reminded of the time when I was running a small business. I thought that what my hon. Friend...

I remember thinking it was illegal the first time it happened to me. It involved a business based...

The hon. Gentleman says that this Bill will transform the experience of small businesses. Surely ...

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman, although I understand his point. In the end, having thought a...

I think the hon. Gentleman misunderstands the objective, which is not to get the extra forced pay...

I understand what the hon. Gentleman is driving at, but much as I would love there to be a mandat...

The hon. Gentleman may well think that the proposal would make things worse, but his opinion is n...

I can only speak from personal experience, which is what I have tried to do, to explain why I thi...

Like the hon. Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer), I have also run a small business—for 15 years, in ...

Given the time in the calendar that we are now approaching—November, December, January, February—...

That is absolutely true. It is certainly my experience that the delays at this time of year are a...

indicated assent.

I do not know how many businesses there are in Scotland, but there are 5 million in the UK as a w...

I am in the rather unusual position of speaking to my new clauses and in effect winding up the de...

Nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely right, there is nothing wrong with that. However, the suggestion that none of my colle...

I apologise for missing the first part of the hon. Gentleman’s speech. He has just characterised ...

Members will be able to check Hansard for the exact phraseology, but I was attempting to paraphra...

Does my hon. Friend share my ambition that new clause 4 does not have to be onerous or deliver an...

My hon. Friend is right. The proposals brought forward in Committee were detailed, and new clause...

I have been following the hon. Gentleman’s remarks very carefully. To touch on what my hon. Frien...

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. The Bill, as originally drafted, would have meant that a ...

But that would depend very much on the type of work. If it was a construction contract that was r...

I almost wish the hon. Gentleman had been on the Committee. We debated many of these issues and h...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I will give way because the hon. Gentleman made a speech. But if we are going to get into a great...

I understand that, but the hon. Gentleman has just made a point that reveals his misunderstanding...

That was a bizarre contribution in a number of ways. First, we have said we are going to support ...

We have had a good-natured and largely well-informed debate on these new clauses and amendments.<...

Will the Minister give way?

I will in a moment. Many Members have ignored the fact that the Bill already contains measures to...

I am glad that the Minister did not give way to me earlier, because he has made my point quite we...

All Government amendments are, of course, perfect, at least when I am at the Dispatch Box. Howeve...

The Minister is right to talk about unintended consequences. Getting companies to sign up to the ...

First, the fact that everybody will now know, because they will read the Hansard, that that compa...

The Minister will recall that I mentioned that in Scotland there are 43 businesses on the prompt ...

There are 1,700 businesses on the register from across the country as a whole. Of course, this is...

rose—

I want to turn to the campaign that the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrah...

Although many people will of course race off to Hansard to catch up on this debate, some, unbelie...

There is a lot in what the hon. Gentleman says, and that is why we are strengthening the code and...

The Minister will be well aware that many large businesses in this country are not in the FTSE 35...

Absolutely, and I would be happy to work with my hon. Friend on that. There are large private com...

I am pleased to hear what the Minister has said about new clause 3 and the prompt payment code. G...

That is terrific. After our voting performance today, I am delighted to hear that.

Amendmen...

Why does the Minister present regulation as always being anti-business, given that so many busine...

Of course, if we can achieve the regulatory objectives with a lower burden on business, we can ge...

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Before we come to the next matters relating to the Bill, I have received a report from the teller...