Finance Bill

I am pleased that the right hon. Gentleman is here. I recall in the debate in Committee of the wh...

My hon. Friend talks about the amount that may be raised, but rather than having a regular debate...

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We do indeed have a regular debate about the facts and f...

Our hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) makes a good point. When the Governme...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that powerful point. As I said, I will explore the details in...

There are 15,300 people in work in my constituency who earn less than the living wage. They have ...

I fear that on previous form the Government will not listen today and accept our new clause. Noth...

Does my hon. Friend share my worry that people will think the Government have something to hide, ...

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. What do the Government have to hide? The data that we seek...

Does my hon. Friend agree that by accepting the new clause, the Government would give weight to t...

My hon. Friend makes a good contribution, which I agree with.

The Government have published all the figures and they show that after the tax cut the better-off...

The right hon. Gentleman is wrong. The Government have published one set of figures from only one...

Is it not the case that the very well paid people who got the benefit are a collection of tax swi...

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his intervention. I was about to come to the topic of t...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government also send the message that a tax cut incentivises t...

My hon. Friend is right.

The Government always tell us how proud they are of their record o...

Far from trying to curb tax avoidance, is not the problem that the Govt constantly open up fresh ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We will debate later the issues in relation to tax avoidance ...

The hon. Lady accuses the Government of being ideological here. For the avoidance of doubt, were ...

Let us see the report. The Minister has had many opportunities in Finance Bill debates where the ...

The Labour party now proposes a 50p rate for the additional rate. Is that a permanent measure or ...

The hon. Gentleman has made that point in previous debates, and I repeat the answer that I gave t...

Let me deal first with an old canard from the Labour Benches that is simply untrue and unfair: th...

The right hon. Gentleman says that the Government are taking many low-income people out of tax. B...

VAT is not as regressive as the hon. Lady suggests, because I am pleased to say that important it...

Why is the right hon. Gentleman so scared of the new clause? All it does is request a report. Sur...

If I am given a chance to develop my argument, I hope I will satisfy any independent-minded peopl...

The right hon. Gentleman said earlier that if the top rate of tax was too high people would leave...

We will be able to answer that question in due course, because these are still early days, but th...

Does not the evidence show that any increase in the tax paid by the rich is the result of their s...

The main reason they pay more tax, of course, is that they generate and declare more income here,...

The right hon. Gentleman is wrong about the Labour party disliking rich people intensely and shou...

That is simply not true. I am delighted to hear that the hon. Lady likes rich people—there are qu...

The right hon. Gentleman has made a number of assertions in his last few sentences. I wonder whet...

The figures I have been using refer to the whole coalition period and show a reduction in inequal...

If the right hon. Gentleman disputes whether an increase in the additional rate of tax would brin...

I thought that I had dealt with that point. As far as I am concerned, it was proven conclusively ...

Does the right hon. Gentleman not recognise that the economic circumstances are now rather differ...

I do not think that the economic circumstances were as different as the hon. Gentleman thinks. In...

It is worth considering some of the context of our debate today on the Finance Bill. Almost 15 ye...

My hon. Friend mentioned Ipsos MORI. If we look at public attitude surveys, we see that one of th...

I could not agree more. I heard the speech of the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood), b...

Given what the hon. Lady is saying, would she support a 50% rate on earnings above £100,000?

I am here to debate the new clause. I am focused on what the Government are doing. I support the ...

The hon. Lady represents a seat next door to mine. We both have significant numbers of constituen...

I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, but I do not agree. My hon. Friend the Member for Bi...

We are hearing people say, “Tax them less and they will pay more.” Why does that not work all the...

The Government have made a great deal of their efforts to support middle-income families, but fra...

rose—

I will not give way again as I am conscious that others wish to speak. I will conclude.

The...

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali). I agree tha...

Does the hon. Gentleman, as a Lib Dem, not recall that that date was significant in another way, ...

Mr Deputy Speaker, I am sure you would call me out of order if I responded to that point.

L...

The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting speech. Is he making the commitment today that the Li...

I am not sure which proposal the hon. Gentleman is referring to.

The 50p tax rate.

I am not committing anything for our next manifesto, just as the hon. Gentleman’s party is not as...

I will check Hansard to make sure that this is accurate, but I think the hon. Gentleman said that...

I do not see VAT mentioned in the new clause. I was pointing out that, as the hon. Gentleman’s ow...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr Frank Field.

I’m not that bloody old, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I don’t think we use that language, either.

I am sure that the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) would agree.

The hon. Member...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. I agree that it is important: the narrative that Labour taxe...

May I add some grist to my hon. Friend’s mill by asking whether he agrees that it is astonishing ...

My right hon. Friend’s remarks stand on the record. Perhaps what he has said can tell us somethin...

Uncharacteristically, I will come to the aid of the former right hon. Member for Hartlepool, beca...

The right hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. Throughout the last Parliament, that fair share was ...

rose—

The Minister will respond just before 2.50 and we have four more speakers.

I will be fairly brief.

Under the last Government, I moved amendments like the new clause o...

On the point about being informed, does the hon. Gentleman think it unwise that the Leader of the...

I want openness and transparency. I would prefer people to put their cards on the table in the ru...

The hon. Gentleman has expressed his concerns about rising inequality. Why does he think the Oppo...

I will give the Labour party the benefit of the doubt. It has the national policy forum at the we...

I shall be brief. The new clause would force the Chancellor to publish a report that made it clea...

Will my hon. Friend give way?

I will not give way because other Members want to speak.

From the “The Spirit Level” by Wil...

It is a great pleasure, as always, to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Ce...

Will my hon. Friend give way?

I am afraid we do not have much time, but if there is time at the end I will take an intervention...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

I am being told to wrap up, so I shall do so by saying that a tax cut for this country costs £3 b...

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can you confirm that if an hon. Member is mentioned in th...

We both know that the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) is not obliged to give way. Th...

I meant no discourtesy to the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie), but you were indicatin...

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Chair is not going to take a decision or be blamed for anybo...

I strongly support new clause 14. It would appear that the Treasury’s Orwellian motto is “Ignoran...

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

No, I will not give way—[Interruption.] Well, I have sat here throughout the whole debate and lis...

It is always a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank D...

Will the Minister give way?

I think I should.

Can the Minister identify anything I said that was factually incorrect? [Interruption.]

Someone says most of it, but in the time available, I ought to turn to the new clause.

The ...

Will the Minister give way?

I want to make this point, then I will give way.

Let me address the matter of behavioural e...

Does the Minister accept that the Office for National Statistics and the Office for Budget Respon...

The important point here is that the HMRC analysis explicitly dealt with that issue. Yes, there w...

The Minister will acknowledge that the IFS has said that this whole area would benefit from great...

There is no evidence that HMRC’s original analysis was wrong. When the Opposition announced earli...

Is the Minister as concerned as I am that Labour Members are not simply calling for a 50p rate? W...

I note the fact that the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras referred to a rate of “at l...

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Treasury publishes figures every month on tax collection, an...

That is correct. It is a higher proportion than ever; it is more than was being received under La...

Will the Minister give way?

I really should allow time for the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood to speak. On this record,...

We have had a good debate on our new clause. As I expected, the tone of the Minister’s remarks su...

Let us get the figures clear. On the percentage of gross income that goes on taxes, for the botto...

I am glad that my hon. Friend has put that point on the record—

3 pm

Debate interrupt...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 67, in clause 107, page 90, line 33, at end ...

New clause 7 rectifies a minor omission from clause 105 by applying the reduction of the threshol...

It is for investment managers.

The shadow Chief Secretary says it is a tax cut for investment managers. They are different from ...

I sense from the mood of the House that the Opposition are thinking of opposing new clause 7. If ...

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is investors in pension schemes who will bear the cos...

It is for investment managers.

Again—I hope the record will pick that up—this is for investment managers, not hedge fund manager...

Let me begin where the Minister left off, on new clause 7. It is worth noting that section 74 of ...

You’re a better woman.

The hon. Gentleman says I am a better woman, but I have to confess that I was not able to persuad...

Why does my hon. Friend think that the Government are so reluctant to produce this report if, ind...

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I can only hazard a guess as to why the Government ...

rose—

I will give way to the Minister, who I am sure will want to tell me what he is doing for those ha...

The hon. Lady raises the question of who benefits, which will no doubt be a feature of our debate...

As I said in Committee and as we have seen in some of the to-ing and fro-ing this afternoon, this...

I have already set out how this tax cut will benefit those contributing towards their pension. I ...

I am going to come on to the issue of who benefits, but I noticed that, once again, the Minister ...

rose—

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman if he will tell me how this particular tax cut benefits my ...

I have been listening carefully to the points the hon. Lady is attempting to make. I still do not...

If the Government, of course, were to produce the report requested in this mild-mannered, sensibl...

The hon. Lady always puts forward her proposals very reasonably, but I have to tell her that ther...

I want to move on to discuss further who exactly it does benefit, which is the crucial point. We ...

Is it not typical of the Government that they can find that £160 million while telling our consti...

Once again, my hon. Friend has made a very valid point. As he says, many of our constituents in t...

My hon. Friend has described a number of desperate scenarios with which the Government could help...

As I said earlier, one thing that the Government could do and have consistently refused to do wou...

It is a pleasure to respond to this short debate. The hon. Lady has an admirable ability to make ...

rose—

I hope that the hon. Lady will share that view.

Of course I recognise the value and the range of those jobs. Will the Minister tell us exactly wh...

The hon. Lady puts her finger on an important word, which is “risk”. Yes, a number of jobs are in...

indicated assent.

The hon. Lady is nodding her head. I will take that as an acceptance, even though, as we have hea...

Does the Minister agree that it seems incredibly naive to give away these jobs and reduce these p...

It is striking that time and again senior figures in the Labour party went around describing this...

On the same theme, did the Minister share my concern about the number of speeches made in Committ...

Yes, I did. There was a complete absence of any understanding of tax incidence and of who ultimat...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 11 relates to the Governme...

Does my hon. Friend agree that rights are rights—not something to be bought and sold? If we give ...

My hon. Friend hits on a key point. Rights are rights and should not be up for sale. I will go in...

My hon. Friend is making incredibly important points. She mentioned businesses. Does she share my...

I agree with my hon. Friend’s concern. The lack of transparency from the Government about the int...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the measure lacks basic human dignity, which should be at the fore...

The proposition risks ringing of that. It lacks an ethical approach, given that it trades people’...

That is the key point, is it not? Share schemes and share option schemes are fantastic incentives...

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. He sums up the point at stake. The scheme seems to confuse and c...

To build on that important exchange, Labour supports employee ownership, but coupling it with sla...

My hon. Friend speaks passionately and I absolutely agree. Employee ownership is something we sho...

I assure the hon. Lady that I do not do anything frantically. I have been searching. I think that...

I would be interested to hear more details of that story once the hon. Gentleman has had time to ...

My hon. Friend has quoted some significant voices in this debate and I want to add one more quota...

My hon. Friend raises an important point, and that concern has been expressed by a range of voice...

One could conceive that this policy may have had a well-intentioned goal, but does my hon. Friend...

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention as it takes me neatly to my next point, which is the...

Before the soothsayers and the sketch writers say again that Labour is anti-something or other, I...

Is there not a contradiction between the argument that the scheme will lose billions and saying t...

I have the utmost respect for the hon. Gentleman, but he should allow me to develop the argument ...

My hon. Friend is making a very eloquent and provocative speech. Does he agree with me that it is...

I do not know how much my hon. Friend thinks he would get if he sold himself into slavery—[Interr...

Order. Thankfully, that matter would be out of order to discuss. Therefore, any embarrassment tha...

Thank you for that interjection, Mr Speaker, and I am sorry that I treated such a serious topic a...

I have sympathy with some of the Labour party’s concerns on this issue, but having listened for a...

The hon. Gentleman is taking a very liberal position, but I refer again to the evidence given dur...

My hon. Friend raises an important point, but the intervention by the hon. Member for Eastbourne ...

My hon. Friend advances the argument eloquently. We debate these issues and talk about employment...

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), who spoke with great authority, ...

When I visit small businesses in my constituency, I am sometimes quite shocked that, say, one per...

My hon. Friend speaks from great experience and is, as usual, exactly on the point. For many smal...

It is a delight to follow the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller), who spoke with such autho...

Does my hon. Friend think it is just a coincidence that the vast majority of the FTSE 100 compani...

The best organisations offer benefits in kind, which can be shares to their employees. I and many...

I apologise to the House for not being present at the beginning of the debate. The previous debat...

As we have heard, new clause 11 would require the Chancellor to review the impact of the new empl...

I certainly accept the Minister’s point about the timing for reporting back on the scheme. Howeve...

We have been consistent throughout. No one argues that the arrangement is right for everybody; it...

I appreciate the intervention just made by the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales). The issue is ...

I do not accept that. As far as avoidance is concerned, the tax reliefs are intended to encourage...

Given the widespread concern expressed about the scheme, is the Minister’s position—that the Gove...

No, that is not the case. As I said, when the original legislation was passed, protections were p...

I am grateful to my favourite Treasury Minister for allowing me to intervene again. What the Mini...

It is always a great pleasure to give way to my favourite Member of Parliament for Edinburgh Sout...

It will be no surprise that I find the Minister’s response extremely disappointing and a little c...

The Minister tried to respond to my two interventions about tax evasion by reading figures from t...

I, too, took great interest in what the Minister said, because he seemed to disown the figures th...

I am sorry to have missed some of the erudite contributions to this debate, especially that of th...

I share all those concerns and many more. Ultimately, it is for the Government to take on board w...

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

We now come to the last of our debate...

In relation to eurobonds, I read a report that the shadow Chancellor has suggested that there is ...

I will turn at length to costings of the abuse of the quoted eurobonds exemption, but it is certa...

As the hon. Lady has mentioned the deficit, would she now like to apologise on behalf of the Labo...

I think the hon. Gentleman and other Government Members should apologise for the fact that their ...

rose—

I know the Minister will say that it has gone down in percentage terms, but only by 0.1%. I assum...

indicated assent.

Focusing on the actual figure is important. It concentrates the mind when assessing the scale of ...

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech and she is right that this is a large sum of money. ...

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. He is of course right that this is a huge sum of money a...

I am certainly no defender of the tax gap, and I am on record as having challenged the whole syst...

The truth is that any tax gap, however big or small, is unacceptable to the public, and strong ac...

rose—

I will take further interventions later, but I want to make some progress.

What else has be...

It is worth noting that last year tax inspectors collected a record £23.9 billion, about £4 billi...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but as I just said, the tax gap has wid...

Does not what my hon. Friend is saying suggest that there is a cosy relationship between the Cons...

My hon. Friend has made his point powerfully, and in his characteristic way.

As we can see,...

The hon. Lady has mentioned a number of measures, and has made some good points. Should not the G...

I think the Government should adopt an across-the-board strategy. I think they should deal with c...

I think we went through this in the Finance Bill Committee last year. It would be somewhat iniqui...

That may be the hon. Gentleman’s view, but I am simply pointing out that in order to fall foul of...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

No, I am going to make some more progress.

Tax avoidance and how to tackle it effectively a...

The hon. Lady talks about the next Labour Government. Does she wish to apologise for the slashing...

Given the cuts at HMRC, this Government’s record on HMRC resources, which is a topic I regularly ...

In my letter, I also offered the hon. Lady a meeting, attended by officials, to discuss the matte...

I am grateful to the Minister for his intervention and I hope he does not take it as a personal s...

It is quite the opposite: I have absolute confidence that the hon. Lady would have the capacity t...

I may yet take the Minister up on it. But it would be a mistake for him to think that our proposa...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I am going to make a bit more progress.

Let us say for the sake of argument that the figure...

I would hate it if the hon. Lady inadvertently gave the impression that it was my view that the £...

I am grateful to the Minister for that intervention. I was talking about the overall yield. On th...

On these particular provisions, the hon. Lady said that she consulted experts. Will she confirm w...

I would be happy to have a long conversation with the hon. Gentleman about all the different expe...

rose—

I want to make some more progress.

Secondly, we want to push the Government to take action ...

A recent report by Felix Behling and Mark Harvey, “The Evasion Economy,” estimates that in the co...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the findings of that report and we know that this is a r...

My hon. Friend is making a very fine speech and I agree with what she is saying. In 1970, I serve...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is right that this is a long-standing problem for Government...

I am pleased to take part in this debate—it is the first time I have participated in a Finance Bi...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Quite a lot of people want to speak, but the hon. Gentleman is a good man, so I will give way to ...

It is a simple point: the great majority of wage earners and salary earners can never escape, avo...

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right, but overwhelmingly it is the entrepreneurs of this country ...

On the question of tax avoidance, if the Government do not design the tax system properly and peo...

On a quick point of clarification, the retrospective application that most people are concerned a...

I understand that the advice given to my constituent, who is a business person, came from one of ...

The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful argument. However, he should consider whether his model o...

I hope that the hon. Gentleman thinks I am a bit smarter than his question implies. If someone do...

rose—

Order. I assume that Members taking part in the Finance Bill debate are arithmetically astute, so...

I will endeavour to be as brief as possible, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I have often made the ca...

It is a disgrace that while millions of ordinary people suffer the privations of wage cuts, unemp...

I will not vote for new clause 12, and I will briefly explain why.

A year ago, we enacted t...

In the few moments that I have, I want to point out that self-employment is being used by far too...

We have had a lively debate, and I will try to address as many of the points raised as possible i...

I am disappointed that the Minister will not engage with the practical measures envisaged in the ...