UK Parliament / Open data

Water Industry

Backbench debate on Tuesday, 5 November 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Charlie Elphicke. The answering member was Dan Rogerson.
Unallotted backbench debate. Motion that this House has considered reform and infrastructure of the water industry and consumers' bills. Agreed to on question.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
570 cc178-222 
Session
2013-14
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Charlie Elphicke | 570 c178 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House has considered reform and infrastructure of the water indust...

Julian Smith | 570 c178 (Link to this contribution)

Before my hon. Friend starts his main remarks I would like to pay tribute to him for his work in ...


Show all contributions (131)
Charlie Elphicke | 570 cc178-9 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his customary generosity.

I will turn to the pressures that hard...

Rehman Chishti | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the work he has done to bring the issue to light. In re...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Certainly a better deal needs to be driven for the ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend on all his fine work on the water industry. Would he care to ...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Ensuring that we have investment in the infrastructure tha...

Frank Dobson | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

In view of the hon. Gentleman’s commitment to the issue, I hope that he will confirm that the onl...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

Then they went back up again, as my hon. Friend remarks. Under the previous Government the water ...

Charles Walker | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend wisely talks about infrastructure. One of my concerns regarding the east and south...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c179 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes exactly the right point. In my constituency, in Dover and Deal in east Kent,...

Andrew Percy | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. We have heard a lot about people having pr...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

That is true. In some parts of the country we have too much water and in some parts too little. I...

Charles Walker | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

We do not need to move water around from one place to another; we need to build more reservoirs s...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is a passionate advocate for more reservoirs. Reservoirs are not only important fo...

John Redwood | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that my hon. Friend is going to talk about the need for competition to provide better q...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes an interesting point. The planning system obviously means that such th...

Lord Benyon | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend will be aware that the Water Bill will make it easy for new entrants to do precise...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c180 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. That will be an important reform.

Let me move on to the reforms that are worth cons...

Rehman Chishti | 570 c181 (Link to this contribution)

One of the key problems is that constituents at the bottom end of the income scale have over many...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c181 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point, but I will leave it to my hon. Friend the Member for Sou...

Bill Esterson | 570 c181 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has pointed out some of the problems in the industry and with t...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c181 (Link to this contribution)

Clearly, the billing system needs to be fair.

The issue about debt is that water companies ...

Steve Baker | 570 c181 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning the tideway tunnel, because my constituents in Wyc...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 cc181-2 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Time denies me the opportunity to go into the issue in gre...

George Hollingbery | 570 c182 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way; he is being extremely generous with his time. Doe...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c182 (Link to this contribution)

Very much so. I and, I am sure, many other Members would argue that Ofwat should have a stronger ...

Anne Marie Morris | 570 c182 (Link to this contribution)

Although, clearly, much more needs to be done in the industry to ensure a better balance of risk ...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c182 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, which Ministers will no doubt take on board. This Governme...

Frank Dobson | 570 cc182-3 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the Members who secured this welcome debate.

Until recently, there had been ...

Charles Walker | 570 c183 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly the problem. Our water companies are lousy at collecting water. When it is at its...

Frank Dobson | 570 c183 (Link to this contribution)

The next word in my notes is “reservoirs”. Every substantial reservoir that the water companies u...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 c183 (Link to this contribution)

I stand to be corrected, but I understand that only 1% of rainfall is captured for domestic use. ...

Frank Dobson | 570 c183 (Link to this contribution)

God knows; it would depend on when, if the hon. Gentleman sees what I mean.

The bulk of the...

John Redwood | 570 c183 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman concede that the pipe network that the nationalised industry put in...

Frank Dobson | 570 c183 (Link to this contribution)

That is certainly true. Until 1995, Ministers from all parties accepted the statement by the wate...

Frank Dobson | 570 c184 (Link to this contribution)

In 1995, 826 million gallons of water per day were leaking out of the water companies’ pipes. Acc...

Angus Brendan MacNeil | 570 c184 (Link to this contribution)

Has the right hon. Gentleman made any assessment of the effect on bills if there were not the exc...

Frank Dobson | 570 cc184-5 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot really do that as I have only just come back to looking at the water industry from the t...

George Hollingbery | 570 c185 (Link to this contribution)

I read one or two historical documents on water management before I came to the Chamber. I believ...

Frank Dobson | 570 c185 (Link to this contribution)

That might be the case, but the statement was not made in my name, put it that way. When I was re...

Rehman Chishti | 570 c185 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman says that the previous policy was not in his name. Does his party leader...

Frank Dobson | 570 c185 (Link to this contribution)

My understanding is that the party’s policy—no doubt it will be enunciated in due course from the...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c185 (Link to this contribution)

The percentage is not that high. Nevertheless, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the previ...

Frank Dobson | 570 c186 (Link to this contribution)

It is no good me saying that the previous Government’s record was as good as it ought to have bee...

John Redwood | 570 c186 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has just criticised spending £2.5 billion on water meters as a luxury we...

Frank Dobson | 570 c186 (Link to this contribution)

These industries are pleading poverty all the time, so it would not be all that expensive. The co...

Lord Benyon | 570 cc186-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to take part in a debate from the Back Benches for the first time in a few...

Frank Dobson | 570 c187 (Link to this contribution)

When the hon. Gentleman was talking to the new boss of Ofwat, did he draw to his attention the ma...

Lord Benyon | 570 cc187-8 (Link to this contribution)

Like the right hon. Gentleman, I am keen that everybody pay the required tax, but I caution peopl...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 c188 (Link to this contribution)

I shall expand a little on my hon. Friend’s comments on the role of water companies in dealing wi...

Lord Benyon | 570 cc188-9 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Government are right to deal with the connection to privat...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c189 (Link to this contribution)

I seem to recall that the Select Committee, of which the former water Minister was a member, crit...

Lord Benyon | 570 c189 (Link to this contribution)

The Select Committee produced many good things with which I agree. If that is what it said at the...

Julian Smith | 570 c189 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work as a Minister. He is speaking passionately about the White...

Lord Benyon | 570 cc189-190 (Link to this contribution)

I shall talk about debt and gearing shortly, and I think my hon. Friend will find me in agreement...

Angus Brendan MacNeil | 570 c190 (Link to this contribution)

I have been listening carefully to the arguments on both sides of the debate. Why does the hon. G...

Lord Benyon | 570 c190 (Link to this contribution)

We want to see in England the virtue of the competition from which the hon. Gentleman’s constitue...

Lord Benyon | 570 cc191-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way again because many other Members wish to speak and I want to say something ab...

Robert Buckland | 570 cc192-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who spoke with...

John Redwood | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

When we debated this, I was the one who said, “You must have competition and you can have competi...

Robert Buckland | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that, and his role in all this back in the late 1980s m...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I heard the hon. Gentleman making this argument earlier on the BBC. For the interest of the House...

Robert Buckland | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

Disconnection is very much a last resort. We need to make sure that we do not put off consumers f...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful for that half-explanation. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that unless there is...

Robert Buckland | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I do not follow that argument; it does not apply in other sectors and I do not see why it needs t...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c193 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is completely right to reject the outrageous suggestion made by shadow Minister th...

Robert Buckland | 570 c194 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that this debate will continue in a spirit of looking to the long-term future of the indus...

Charles Walker | 570 c194 (Link to this contribution)

What does my hon. Friend suggest that London does with its faeces if we do not put them into the ...

Robert Buckland | 570 c194 (Link to this contribution)

I am not saying that there is not a problem, but that there are alternative ways of dealing with ...

Damian Hinds | 570 c195 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend and his colleagues on securing the debate. Does he also agree that ...

Robert Buckland | 570 c195 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right to suggest that the breakdown of the arithmetic for individuals does not ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 c195 (Link to this contribution)

Would my hon. Friend care to elaborate on that for those who call for nationalisation? Is it not ...

Robert Buckland | 570 cc195-6 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right that the problem would probably be considerably worse had we left things ...

John Redwood | 570 cc196-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to see you taking up your new duties, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Monopoly is th...

Julian Smith | 570 c198 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend, as always, is speaking in an impassioned way about the merits of competitio...

John Redwood | 570 cc198-9 (Link to this contribution)

I would do it straight away. I cannot see what the problem is. If water is a natural monopoly, as...

Gavin Shuker | 570 cc199-200 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your generosity in allowing me to speak in thi...

Dan Rogerson | 570 c200 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to this debate and hate to interrupt his complimentary remarks about...

Gavin Shuker | 570 c200 (Link to this contribution)

What a fantastic set-up for the speech I am about to give, which is about the Government’s record...

Gavin Shuker | 570 c200 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to take an intervention from the former water Minister.

Lord Benyon | 570 c200 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to rise, because I could just sit here and enjoy the hon. Gentleman’s speech. He and I...

Gavin Shuker | 570 cc200-1 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a passionate defence of his own record in post.

Let us look at som...

George Hollingbery | 570 c201 (Link to this contribution)

I think I am right in saying that the previous Labour Government were in power for 13 years and I...

Gavin Shuker | 570 c201 (Link to this contribution)

Why not start with the three reviews that led to the water White Paper? The Pitt, Walker and Cave...

Thomas Docherty | 570 c201 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. I think I am right in saying that it was only under...

Gavin Shuker | 570 c202 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If we look at the price review periods since privatisation, w...

Andrew Percy | 570 c202 (Link to this contribution)

We have moved on a little, but the hon. Gentleman has graciously given way. He is doing a good jo...

Gavin Shuker | 570 c202 (Link to this contribution)

Intense flooding has major implications and climate change means that it will happen more regular...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 c202 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the last Labour Government did nothing on social tariffs?

Gavin Shuker | 570 cc202-3 (Link to this contribution)

No, that is not the case. The Flood and Water Management Act 2010 created the legislative framewo...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 c203 (Link to this contribution)

Just to clarify, did the hon. Gentleman say that we need a national water grid to move water arou...

Gavin Shuker | 570 cc203-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to clarify that. I was saying that the idea of a national water grid is stillborn, pur...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 cc204-5 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to go further in the debate and mention some of the powers that I think the water in...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 cc205-6 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot believe I forgot the name of my hon. Friend’s constituency, but there we go. Like his co...

Frank Dobson | 570 c206 (Link to this contribution)

Surely Yorkshire Water has access to a device that will identify where the aforesaid kink is and ...

Alec Shelbrooke | 570 c206 (Link to this contribution)

One would have thought so, and I have had meetings about that. Unfortunately, Yorkshire Water is ...

Simon Hughes | 570 cc206-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Madam Deputy Speaker; I wel...

Gavin Shuker | 570 c207 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Simon Hughes | 570 c207 (Link to this contribution)

Before I give way, I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the work he did from the Opposition Fr...

Gavin Shuker | 570 cc207-8 (Link to this contribution)

That is incredibly generous of the right hon. Gentleman. I am just checking I am not dead—people ...

Simon Hughes | 570 c208 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise if I phrased my remarks as if to suggest that the hon. Gentleman was the former Membe...

Frank Dobson | 570 c209 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that it would be ludicrous to expect the British taxpayer...

Simon Hughes | 570 cc209-210 (Link to this contribution)

I take a similarly hard line on this issue. If Thames Water does not have the money in its own co...

Andrew Percy | 570 cc210-3 (Link to this contribution)

The debate has been interesting, with more contributions from Government than Opposition Members—...

Julian Smith | 570 cc211-4 (Link to this contribution)

The cost of living is a major issue in Yorkshire, as it is across the rest of the country. I ther...

Frank Dobson | 570 c214 (Link to this contribution)

May I urge the hon. Gentleman not to use the word “earns”, because it has a sensation that they d...

Julian Smith | 570 c214 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman’s intervention is very accurate.

Those highly paid—highly compensa...

Andrew Percy | 570 c214 (Link to this contribution)

These figures are incredible. Does my hon. Friend share my concern that these people are being pa...

Julian Smith | 570 cc214-5 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely do, because the situation is a kick in the teeth from Yorkshire Water to hard-workin...

Thomas Docherty | 570 cc215-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the debate on behalf of the Opposition, Madam Dep...

Julian Smith | 570 c216 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Thomas Docherty | 570 cc216-7 (Link to this contribution)

I will not, because there were so many speakers and we have very little time for the Minister to ...

Dan Rogerson | 570 cc217-8 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a fascinating debate. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fif...

Dan Rogerson | 570 c218 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman did not take interventions, so I shall follow his lead and try to respond to s...

Dan Rogerson | 570 cc218-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way. I accept what the right hon. Gentleman says about what he considers simple p...

Dan Rogerson | 570 cc219-221 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to see that is not something the hon. Gentleman wants, because we certainly do not.<...

Charlie Elphicke | 570 cc220-2 (Link to this contribution)

This has been an excellent debate. In particular, we heard a very fine speech by my hon. Friend t...

Alison Seabeck | 570 c222 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. In the past hour the BBC has been reporting more than ...

Baroness Primarolo | 570 c222 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Lady will know, that is not a point of order. If she wants to pursue the matter, I am...

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