UK Parliament / Open data

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 11 June 2012, in the House of Commons, led by Vincent Cable.
Second reading debate. Amendment debated and negatived on division (216 votes to 301). Original motion agreed to on question. Programme motion agreed to on division (301 votes to 213). Money resolution and Ways and Means resolution agreed to on question
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
546 cc63-142 
Session
2012-13
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Nigel Evans | 546 c64 (Link to this contribution)

The amendment on the Order Paper has been selected.

5.44 pm

Vincent Cable | 546 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I recognise that we face serious co...


Show all contributions (191)
Jonathan Edwards | 546 c64 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give the House categorical assurances that this House and the other H...

Vincent Cable | 546 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I can give a categorical assurance. Of course, as the report has now been published, the hon. Gen...

Joan Walley | 546 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I am concerned that the Secretary of State could bring forward proposals in the Beecroft report t...

Vincent Cable | 546 c65 (Link to this contribution)

We do see that as part of our mandate; indeed, it is the first item that I will discuss in detail...

John Whittingdale | 546 c65 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State accept that copyright is the legal expression of intellectual propert...

Vincent Cable | 546 c65 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I can give assurances on that. We will deal with this subject later, but I totally accept th...

Vincent Cable | 546 cc65-6 (Link to this contribution)

Let me finish, and then I will take interventions.

The bank will also demonstrate the Gover...

Luciana Berger | 546 c66 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State may be aware that a number of months ago the Deputy Prime Minister committ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c66 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware that the team currently working on this, UK Green Investments, has been looking at the...

John Healey | 546 c66 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Business Secretary confirm that the green investment bank will be able to raise funds fr...

Vincent Cable | 546 c66 (Link to this contribution)

It has been described as a bank by the Financial Services Authority, which is the relevant regula...

Joan Walley | 546 c66 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not the case, though, that without the certainty that it will be possible for the bank to b...

Vincent Cable | 546 cc66-7 (Link to this contribution)

The bank will have the certainty of knowing that it has £3 billion committed to it from the Gover...

Eilidh Whiteford | 546 c67 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the establishment of the green investment bank in Edinburgh. What measures are the Gove...

Vincent Cable | 546 c67 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think a specific procurement code is required for this institution, though of course Gov...

Simon Hughes | 546 c67 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State confirm that not only are the Government committed to the green inves...

Vincent Cable | 546 c67 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is right. We have the Green Economy Council, which is an over-arching body r...

John Healey | 546 c67 (Link to this contribution)

If the referendum on Scottish separation is successful, will the Secretary of State relocate this...

Vincent Cable | 546 c67 (Link to this contribution)

I have every confidence in the sense of the Scottish people, and I have every confidence that the...

David Evennett | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his introductory comments on this important Bill. Governme...

Vincent Cable | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes the point in a fair and balanced way, and he defines exactly what we are try...

Richard Fuller | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for saying that he will have no truck with compensated no-f...

Vincent Cable | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to go back and look at the correspondence, but the Federation of Small Businesses, as ...

Julie Hilling | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

When the Secretary of State says that a great number of people have made representations about em...

Vincent Cable | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I think the hon. Lady is referring to a survey of small business that my Department did. Indeed, ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I will take one more intervention, then I will move on.

Geraint Davies | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State agree that the Beecroft proposals about no-fault dismissal amount to ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

That is going rather further than I would want to go with the argument or the evidence.

Kate Green | 546 c68 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill does not contain measures on some of the matters on which the Government are consulting ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

I have no such proposals. There is nothing stopping the hon. Lady proposing amendments for us to ...

David Ruffley | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

In 2004 Germany exempted micro-businesses from unfair dismissal-style protections. Has the Secret...

Vincent Cable | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

As it happens, I was in Germany a few weeks ago—I unfortunately had to miss Business, Innovation ...

Brian Binley | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

I had hoped to see in the Bill further measures taken from the German book, particularly the excl...

Vincent Cable | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

We will obviously look at any proposals on their merits, but our current regulatory system does h...

Sam Gyimah | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State agree that the current employment tribunal system is not simple, tran...

Vincent Cable | 546 c69 (Link to this contribution)

I totally agree with my hon. Friend, who anticipates many of the things I will say. He is absolut...

John Healey | 546 c70 (Link to this contribution)

May I say how welcome the Secretary of State’s balanced view is, in contrast to those of some Mem...

Vincent Cable | 546 c70 (Link to this contribution)

My experience is that colleagues behind and beside me have a very balanced view of this question—...

Julian Smith | 546 c70 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the decision to move forward with settlements and compensation, which is a really good ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c70 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his positive response. The Under-Secretary of State for Business, Inno...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c70 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, if an employee and an employer have “without prejudice” discussions that involve an of...

Vincent Cable | 546 c71 (Link to this contribution)

If the dispute is then unresolved, which is the implication of the last phrase in the hon. Gentle...

Helen Grant | 546 c71 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State agree that the rapid resolution scheme will make it quicker, cheaper,...

Vincent Cable | 546 c71 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and I thank my hon. Friend for making that important point. It is not simply employers who h...

Steve Baker | 546 c71 (Link to this contribution)

On the point about business confidence and taking on new staff, having worked as a freelance soft...

Vincent Cable | 546 cc71-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am tempted to engage in a long disquisition on that subject, having been involved in the debate...

Jonathan Edwards | 546 c72 (Link to this contribution)

What consideration has the Secretary of State given to creating remuneration bodies that include ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c72 (Link to this contribution)

That is an issue on which we have frequently exchanged views across the House, and we do indeed w...

Simon Hughes | 546 c72 (Link to this contribution)

This is one of those issues that the Government inherited. It is the scandal, left by the previou...

Vincent Cable | 546 cc72-4 (Link to this contribution)

There are separate developments taking place that do not require primary legislation, and they wi...

Geraint Davies | 546 c74 (Link to this contribution)

How does the strength of law on copyright compare with that on patents? I am thinking of the inte...

Vincent Cable | 546 c74 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that there is any link between patents and copyrights in this case; they are separ...

John Whittingdale | 546 c74 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will be aware that in the Hargreaves report a number of the proposals rela...

Vincent Cable | 546 cc74-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to give the hon. Gentleman a very precise answer because I will need to check on t...

Kate Green | 546 c75 (Link to this contribution)

How will the provisions of clause 51 on repealing some of the provisions of the Equality Act 2010...

Vincent Cable | 546 c75 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to mention that measure at the end of my speech. We see it essentially as a bit of le...

Sam Gyimah | 546 c75 (Link to this contribution)

On reviewing regulations that have already been passed, one regulation that springs to mind is th...

Vincent Cable | 546 c75 (Link to this contribution)

This would not be the context in which to do it, because it is, of course, now part of the law. W...

Sam Gyimah | 546 c75 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that the TUC and the CBI, as European social partners, were very involved in the neg...

Vincent Cable | 546 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I have an open mind if the hon. Gentleman has good ideas as to how that can be done. We have comm...

Julian Smith | 546 c76 (Link to this contribution)

Has the Secretary of State given any further thought to including EU directives and legislation i...

Vincent Cable | 546 c76 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), who has d...

Sheila Gilmore | 546 c76 (Link to this contribution)

Following the dialogue that has just taken place, I am left unclear whether the Secretary of Stat...

Vincent Cable | 546 c76 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, that case has been strongly made to us by people in the business community. I also sai...

Sheila Gilmore | 546 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I am still left unclear about the meaning of gold-plating, which, in my view, is a phrase that is...

Vincent Cable | 546 cc76-7 (Link to this contribution)

What small businesses usually mean by gold-plating is that they spend a great deal of time fillin...

Vincent Cable | 546 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I am coming to the end of my speech.

I have acknowledged that legislation by itself will no...

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc77-8 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House, whilst supporting the principles of the Green Investment Ba...

Julian Smith | 546 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I challenge the hon. Gentleman’s point that Labour left the country in a good regulatory state. T...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c78 (Link to this contribution)

What I cited was the World Bank’s assessment of the state in which we left the environment for bu...

Lord Sharma | 546 c78 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc78-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a bit of progress, because I want to ensure that there is time for others to get in.<...

David Mowat | 546 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to the shadow Secretary of State’s comments on the green investment bank...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c79 (Link to this contribution)

We will wait to see the detail that the Government come forward with in Committee. We are clear t...

Joan Walley | 546 c79 (Link to this contribution)

To go back one step, what my hon. Friend just read out about the need for borrowing powers was ex...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I will be happy to do that. My hon. Friend is, of course, the Chair of that Select Committee.

...
Ann McKechin | 546 c79 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the green investment bank must not be a bank of last resort that s...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c80 (Link to this contribution)

I could not agree more. The Government have committed to additionality and we will look to ensure...

Sam Gyimah | 546 c80 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Chuka Umunna | 546 c80 (Link to this contribution)

I was wondering when a Government Member would seek to intervene. I will give way shortly.

...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c80 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the hon. Member for Bedford and to the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), wh...

Sam Gyimah | 546 c80 (Link to this contribution)

There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. It is a misrepresentation to say that any conversat...

Baroness Primarolo | 546 c81 (Link to this contribution)

Order. A lot of Members are waiting to speak, so interventions must be brief.

Chuka Umunna | 546 c81 (Link to this contribution)

I will expand on that point in more detail later, but what I can tell the hon. Gentleman now is t...

Brian Binley | 546 c81 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the shadow Secretary of State admires experience. He knows that I founded two compani...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c81 (Link to this contribution)

I acknowledge the hon. Gentleman’s great wisdom and experience, but I respectfully disagree with ...

Richard Fuller | 546 c81 (Link to this contribution)

May I point out that this is the Secretary of State’s Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill, not ...

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc81-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure exactly which proposal the hon. Gentleman thinks it is worth having a look at. If h...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c82 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way shortly.

The Secretary of State has quite rightly said that it is not the j...

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc82-3 (Link to this contribution)

Yes it is: it is precisely what they have been doing with the promotion of the Beecroft report by...

Julian Smith | 546 c83 (Link to this contribution)

I assume that the hon. Gentleman, as a former employer lawyer, was involved in negotiating compro...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c83 (Link to this contribution)

No, the hon. Gentleman is wrong. As things stand, the position in law is that if a pay-off offer ...

Vincent Cable | 546 c83 (Link to this contribution)

As far as I am aware there are none, but the hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Beecroft repor...

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc83-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am slightly surprised by that answer because of the equivocation. The Secretary of State commis...

Julian Smith | 546 c84 (Link to this contribution)

Does the shadow Secretary of State think it reasonable that, in 1999, the compensatory award leve...

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc84-5 (Link to this contribution)

I think it is reasonable, when people have been treated in an appalling and unfair fashion by the...

Geraint Davies | 546 c85 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in Wales, 70% of procurement goes to small and medium-sized enterpr...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c85 (Link to this contribution)

I certainly agree that we should increase the procurement opportunities for our SMEs. When we wer...

Stephen Pound | 546 c85 (Link to this contribution)

Further to my hon. Friend’s point about the additional costs and duties that will descend upon th...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c85 (Link to this contribution)

First, I thank my hon. Friend for that update from the European championship—

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc85-6 (Link to this contribution)

I stand corrected. On my hon. Friend’s point about the resourcing of ACAS, we do not know what it...

Chuka Umunna | 546 cc86-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress, so that the hon. Gentleman will have more time to speak later.

P...

Vincent Cable | 546 c88 (Link to this contribution)

Current thinking—we are yet to report back to the House formally on the consultation—is that ther...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c88 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad to hear that, but I wonder where all the briefing in the Sunday newspapers yesterday, i...

Baroness Primarolo | 546 cc88-90 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before I call the next speaker, I must inform the House that all Back-Bench speeches will ...

David Ruffley | 546 cc90-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), who invariably ma...

Chuka Umunna | 546 c91 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

David Ruffley | 546 c91 (Link to this contribution)

No, I want to make some progress.

Part 5 deals with legislative burdens more generally. Cla...

William Bain | 546 cc91-3 (Link to this contribution)

Several weeks ago, the Business Secretary revealed publicly to The Guardian something that the co...

Margot James | 546 cc93-5 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the many excellent measures in the Bill that lay the foundations for a low-carbon econo...

Julian Smith | 546 c95 (Link to this contribution)

I think my hon. Friend gets an extra minute for taking my intervention. Does she agree that there...

Margot James | 546 c95 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The problem is not just the cost of defending claims, but the ...

Brian Binley | 546 c95 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend give way? She will get another minute if she does.

Margot James | 546 c95 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once more, but I will not take all the extra time.

Brian Binley | 546 c95 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful. Does my hon. Friend recognise that, for some small businesses, two days and t...

Baroness Primarolo | 546 c95 (Link to this contribution)

Order. It is quite true that the hon. Lady gets extra time for taking interventions, but of cours...

Margot James | 546 cc95-6 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am conscious of that and I will not take all the additional ti...

Adrian Bailey | 546 c96 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support the reasoned amendment. I consider that the appropriate course, because althoug...

Mike Crockart | 546 c96 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Adrian Bailey | 546 c96 (Link to this contribution)

All right. I will try not to use my full time.

Mike Crockart | 546 c96 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting point, but surely he must accept that the fact that £...

Adrian Bailey | 546 cc96-7 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that that is better than nothing, but it falls far short of the Ernst and Young assessme...

Richard Fuller | 546 cc97-8 (Link to this contribution)

As our national economy searches for growth, we look for direction. As our small businesses, our ...

David Anderson | 546 c98 (Link to this contribution)

Interestingly, the OECD has the UK as the second worst country out of 36 in the developed world f...

Richard Fuller | 546 c98 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the intervention, but I am not as clear as the hon. Gentleman is about those particu...

Sandra Osborne | 546 c98 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Richard Fuller | 546 c98 (Link to this contribution)

Very briefly; I, like others, will not then use up more time.

Sandra Osborne | 546 c99 (Link to this contribution)

Statistics are extremely interesting, but what is the connection between what the hon. Gentleman ...

Richard Fuller | 546 c99 (Link to this contribution)

Many people look at the “dismissal” part of no-fault dismissal, whereas for Government Members an...

Sandra Osborne | 546 cc99-101 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller), although I do not agree ...

Brian Binley | 546 cc100-2 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) on a forceful defenc...

David Anderson | 546 c102 (Link to this contribution)

Given what the hon. Gentleman has said, would it not be more sensible for the Government, instead...

Brian Binley | 546 c102 (Link to this contribution)

I consider the hon. Gentleman to be a friend, and our views meet on a number of issues, particula...

David Simpson | 546 c102 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with 99.9% of what the hon. Gentleman is saying, especially about small and medium-sized ...

Brian Binley | 546 cc102-3 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely, and I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point much more su...

Austin Mitchell | 546 cc103-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), provided tha...

Austin Mitchell | 546 cc104-5 (Link to this contribution)

No, I want to be very brief.

We are being offered a marginal increase in shareholder rights...

Austin Mitchell | 546 c105 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am finishing. The Bill is a rag- bag. I agree—

David Evennett | 546 cc105-6 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the Bill and commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for his opening speech...

Barry Sheerman | 546 c106 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman and I agree on many things when it comes to promoting enterprise. Does he agre...

David Evennett | 546 c107 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s comments. We want to get the economy moving across the whole co...

Eilidh Whiteford | 546 c107 (Link to this contribution)

One of the concerns that the Federation of Small Businesses raised about the conciliation proposa...

David Evennett | 546 cc107-8 (Link to this contribution)

I know, but I think and very much hope that the FSB is wrong on this. We need to look after both ...

Julie Hilling | 546 cc108-9 (Link to this contribution)

I want to speak about the proposed changes to employment legislation, an area in which I have man...

Mark Prisk | 546 c109 (Link to this contribution)

On that basis, how come it is a German GM factory, not a British one, that is closing?

Julie Hilling | 546 c109 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister gives one example, and we could collectively give many examples in which the opposit...

Ian Lavery | 546 c109 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that it was Beecroft who suggested that it was fine to sack someone if ...

Julie Hilling | 546 cc109-112 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend that the Beecroft proposals are appalling as they relate to the right...

Eric Ollerenshaw | 546 cc112-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling), who chairs the all-pa...

Lindsay Hoyle | 546 c114 (Link to this contribution)

Before I call the next speaker, I am going to drop the time limit to seven minutes. It is only fa...

David Anderson | 546 cc114-5 (Link to this contribution)

Like everybody else in this Chamber, I represent a diverse community that is not just based on bi...

Ian Lavery | 546 c115 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend share my experience of never having met an employer who believes that this Bi...

David Anderson | 546 cc115-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is clear from our discussions that nobody who represents employees believes that the Bill will...

Julian Smith | 546 cc116-8 (Link to this contribution)

I will restrict my comments to the regulatory aspects of the Bill.

The Government were left...

Mark Durkan | 546 cc118-9 (Link to this contribution)

As a Member who is due to give evidence to the commission on the West Lothian question later this...

Lindsay Hoyle | 546 c119 (Link to this contribution)

A number of Members wish to contribute, so I shall lower the limit to six minutes.

9.5 pm

Priti Patel | 546 cc119-121 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome this Bill, particularly the Government’s commitment to cut the cost of regulations in o...

Kate Green | 546 cc121-2 (Link to this contribution)

Clause 51 seeks to repeal a number of provisions in the Equality Act 2006. I am puzzled by the cl...

Neil Carmichael | 546 cc122-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great honour to be called to speak in this important debate, and I am pleased to follow t...

Ian Lavery | 546 c123 (Link to this contribution)

At this point, does the hon. Gentleman believe that the green investment bank is a bank or a fund...

Neil Carmichael | 546 c123 (Link to this contribution)

It is called a green investment bank and that is what I shall call it, but I accept the need for ...

Geraint Davies | 546 cc123-5 (Link to this contribution)

I think the Bill is not just a lost opportunity but a thinly veiled attack on workers’ rights. It...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 546 cc125-6 (Link to this contribution)

Time restraints mean that I will keep my contribution brief, Mr Deputy Speaker, and address only ...

Iain Wright | 546 cc126-8 (Link to this contribution)

This has been an important if somewhat curtailed debate. In the time we have had, 21 hon. Members...

Iain Wright | 546 c128 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will agree with me.

Brian Binley | 546 c128 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Opposition spokesman, for whom I have equal affection, recognise that those people would...

Iain Wright | 546 cc129-130 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is a wily old bird and he knows that the economy is in recession not because o...

Norman Lamb | 546 cc130-1 (Link to this contribution)

I have to say that I did not agree with much that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hartle...

Norman Lamb | 546 c131 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Mr Ruffley) said, we must balance the interests...

Norman Lamb | 546 cc131-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I do not have time. I need to get through the responses.

This Government are de...

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