UK Parliament / Open data

Scotland Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 2 February 2012, in the House of Lords.
Scotland Bill. Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 11 to 16, 18 to 21 agreed to, with clause 13 agreed to as amended. Clause 17 disagreed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
734 c1678-704, 1720-86 
Session
2010-12
Department
Scotland Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Proceeding contributions
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1691-2 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if I gave the impression that the regulation of air weapons was not an issue. When I sai...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1692 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention. I understood the rhetorical point that he made...

Show all contributions (157)
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1689-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am still not persuaded by my noble and learned friend. Perhaps I am getting old and cyni...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1691 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who took part in what developed into a debate that was mu...
Earl of Caithness | 734 c1689 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps my noble and learned friend can help me on the use of air weapons. Would it be pos...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1689 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I seem to recall going over some details during the Calman commission. It must happen alre...
Viscount Slim | 734 c1687-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in a past life, I, with others, was able to experiment at some length with the possible ad...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1688-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Viscount makes a wider case about a general review of firearms at the UK level. ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1687 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; it is very bad to interrupt my noble and learned friend so often but I just do not under...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1687 (Link to this contribution) I think that my noble friend is seeing difficulties where they do not really exist. The clear view w...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1700 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome this clause, and indeed when discussing the Scotland Bill offstage with my noble...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1700-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord is being far too modest in saying that he went on an expedition to Antarcti...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1697 (Link to this contribution) 21: Clause 13, page 9, line 7, at end insert— ““The reference to any profession regulated by the Reg...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1697-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment is minor and technical in nature and has been laid following work undertake...
Duke of Montrose | 734 c1698-700 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in opening this debate on what is presently something of a probing Motion, I want just to ...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1692-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I approach the Dispatch Box to probe again the distinctions between what Calman recommende...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1694-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for giving us an opportunity to look at this clause. Schedule 2...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1697 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his comprehensive response. I had hop...
Earl of Shrewsbury | 734 c1680-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, with the leave of the House, I wish to speak to my Amendment 19. I declare an interest as ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1682-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, and my noble friend Lord Shrewsbury for giving us an ...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1678 (Link to this contribution) 18: Clause 11, page 8, leave out lines 16 to 18
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1678-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak Amendments 18 and 20 in my name and that of my noble and learned friend. Clause 11...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1684 (Link to this contribution) My noble and learned friend simply stated that the regulation of those more powerful weapons needed ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1684 (Link to this contribution) Because that takes them into a category for which licensing is required. We took the view, as did Ca...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1686 (Link to this contribution) I see the point that the noble Lord is making but I do not necessarily follow him down that route. F...
Earl of Shrewsbury | 734 c1686 (Link to this contribution) Although my noble friend says that this is enabling legislation which the Scottish Parliament may or...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1686 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend made a very powerful speech. However, we cannot make presumptions in that regard; no...
Duke of Montrose | 734 c1686 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my noble and learned friend could clarify one of the points introduced by the noble Lord, Lo...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1686-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that that is the case. However, I think my noble friend is right that the power in the...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1684 (Link to this contribution) I am genuinely trying to understand this. If the Scottish Parliament was to have power to regulate t...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1684-5 (Link to this contribution) With respect, it is not illogical at all. A point I will raise when I respond to my noble friend Lor...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1685 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. Perhaps it might be better if I made a speech rather than asked qu...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1685 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Browne, quoted other parts of the report, which said that, notwithstanding that...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1685-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord for giving way. Indeed, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord For...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 734 c1701 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does the clause in any way inhibit Scottish universities’ polar research? My noble friend ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1701 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. I think that he and I need to be careful because we will soon ...
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale | 734 c1702 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can confirm that I was aware of my responsibilities as First Minister of Scotland, but I...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1701-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we support the inclusion of the clause, which seems sensible. Antarctica is obviously an i...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1702 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Duke of Montrose for giving us the opportunity to dis...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1702 (Link to this contribution) The question that I was going to pose was why we did not extend the ban on smoking in public places ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1703 (Link to this contribution) It was oversight, I suspect, but it is important that we now address it. Following completion of the...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1702 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree that it is a disgrace that, because of the incompetence of Ministers in 1998...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1703 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate, because I recall seeing a definition of Antarctica as being all seas and islands below 6...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1703 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister confirm that South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands are not included in the ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1703 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, the Falklands are a dependent territory of the United Kingdom and the South Sand...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1720-1 (Link to this contribution) 22: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause— ““Variation of student fees according to origi...
Duke of Montrose | 734 c1704 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank all those who have contributed to this discussion. It has been some time since Ant...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1703-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for the purposes of the Antarctic Act 1994, which was to implement our international oblig...
Lord Lyell | 734 c1703 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make my first intervention—I am sure that the Minister will be delighted. I have an in...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1722 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord recognise the supreme irony in the Scottish Government’s position? On the one ha...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1721-2 (Link to this contribution) I think that things are moving up the scale, although they are taking some time to do so. We are mak...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1721 (Link to this contribution) This is the first recorded occasion when the Scottish media have paid attention to anything that was...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1721 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is my pleasure to move Amendment 22, which would prevent the Scottish Executive and the...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1722 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend, who was a distinguished administrator and academic at the University of Aberdeen—he...
Lord Cullen of Whitekirk | 734 c1776-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the review group under the noble and learned Lord, Lord McCluskey, is to be complimented o...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1785 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is an important point in what my noble friend says. The Calman commission recommenda...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1786 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a short debate so I do not even have to thank anybody for taking part in it....
Baroness Rawlings | 734 c1785-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Sewel, for putting down his amendment as it giv...
Lord Sanderson of Bowden | 734 c1732-3 (Link to this contribution) In my case, no doubt everyone will realise that the grandfather will have to pay. That is one part o...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1733-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, who put the nub of the issue facing the Governm...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1734 (Link to this contribution) My amendment is different from that of the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and we will no doubt come to it...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1734-5 (Link to this contribution) I have not been long in your Lordships' House, but I have learnt to be wary of the noble Lord’s simp...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1735 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord and I am completely out of my depth because I have never really...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1735-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord raises a point of principle. My point was that, to my knowledge, there was one other ...
Lord Selkirk of Douglas | 734 c1736 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord care to bear in mind that the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 734 c1736-7 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my noble friend would remember that we do not need to have a solution that covers every form...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1736 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that intervention. I am a member of a profession that prides its...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1737 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can help the noble Lord. It is great to have a rebuke from the Opposition Benches. I was a...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1737 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for his clarity of presentation. I do not think that anyone, having...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1738-9 (Link to this contribution) European Union law could not be changed unilaterally. I know that my noble friend proposes in his am...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1737 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have been able to give the noble Lord another opportunity to be helpful to the Commi...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1737-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Committee owes a debt to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and my noble friend Lord Forsyt...
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 734 c1740 (Link to this contribution) There is, however, one significant difference. Many of us come from a generation where we had to liv...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1740 (Link to this contribution) They can actually make the choice to go to London and possibly not pay any more or any less.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 734 c1740 (Link to this contribution) Clearly the choice is driven then purely by financial constraints rather than by educational aspirat...
Lord Flight | 734 c1741 (Link to this contribution) I point out to the Minister that Ireland charges extremely low tuition fees at universities. This ha...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1741 (Link to this contribution) It is not a ridiculous argument at all, because it is very difficult if you are a student coming fro...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1741 (Link to this contribution) That is the position for Greeks, German, French, Italians and everybody else in Europe—that it is co...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1740-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree and accept that, but we are perhaps kidding ourselves to think that those students in Scotla...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1722-4 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend and former boss as Secretary of State for Scotland has just stolen the second plank ...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 734 c1722 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is making a valid and important point, but there is another dimension to the issue. ...
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 734 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. The money that Edinburgh will put forward for needy students ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 734 c1730-1 (Link to this contribution) The point I was going on to make is that some of the newer institutions are less well endowed in the...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 734 c1728-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am delighted to be able to follow the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland. He referred to the el...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 734 c1730 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor. There seems to be an outbreak of unity i...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1727 (Link to this contribution) Was the noble Lord as uncomfortable as I was when reading the justification of some leaders of Scott...
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 734 c1727-8 (Link to this contribution) I am very uncomfortable with that. On the other hand, there were reasons, which I shall come to now,...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1724-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak to my Amendment 24. Just to make sure that people realise that the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 734 c1726-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my two preceding speakers for their kind remarks. I run the risk of being drawn in...
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market | 734 c1732 (Link to this contribution) I may have a potential interest that I did not declare. I have grandchildren living in England who m...
Lord Sanderson of Bowden | 734 c1732 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly support both my noble friend’s amendment and that of the noble Lord, Lord Foulk...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1783 (Link to this contribution) I concur with the noble and learned Lord and perhaps we will have a bigger attendance, although that...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1783 (Link to this contribution) I want to reiterate that I regret that because of the way the amendments were grouped, the debate wa...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1782-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Boyd, for that because there are arguments there a...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1782 (Link to this contribution) I referred a case about the independence of justices of the peace, for the very reason to which the ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1782 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I can confirm that the Lord Advocate has referred cases directly to the Supreme Court; the s...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1782 (Link to this contribution) I have not had a chance to check, but I have a recollection that the Attorney-General in England int...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1780-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first of all I thank all the noble Lords—noble and learned Lords—who have taken part. We m...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 734 c1780 (Link to this contribution) It may be regarded as something of an impertinence for one who is not a Scots lawyer to intervene in...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1779-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have very little else to add to what has been a useful debate. However, I hope that next...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1778-9 (Link to this contribution) I hope that this will be the last time that I rise to my feet in this part of the debate. I shall en...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 734 c1778 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly because I look at the matter not in particular detail but, like the noble and ...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1784 (Link to this contribution) 44A: Clause 20, page 14, line 6, leave out ““the agreement of”” and insert ““having consulted””
Baroness D'Souza | 734 c1784 (Link to this contribution) The contrary Not-Content. The Contents have it. Clause 18 agreed. Clause 19 : Power to vary retros...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1784-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my mind goes back to consideration of the Scotland Bill in 1998. Some things are the same ...
Baroness D'Souza | 734 c1783 (Link to this contribution) In Clause 18, Amendments 42 and 43 not moved?
Baroness D'Souza | 734 c1783 (Link to this contribution) The Question is that Clause 18 stand part of the Bill. As many as are of that opinion will say Conte...
Baroness D'Souza | 734 c1783 (Link to this contribution) The Not-Contents have it. Clause 17 disagreed. Amendments 40 and 41 had been withdrawn from the Ma...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1766 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, I understood from our grouping notice this morning that we were going to discus...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1766 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I can assist here, my understanding is the same as that of the noble and learned Lord, ...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1756-61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this debate is scheduled to finish at 7 pm, which gives us slightly over two hours. That i...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1761-6 (Link to this contribution) For the convenience of the Committee, I will just explain why we are supporting the proposal that th...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1766 (Link to this contribution) With respect, we are not going back on that: Clause 17 goes out. However, in the same grouping we ha...
Earl Attlee | 734 c1766 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may be helpful if I tell the noble and learned Lord that he has not lost the opportunit...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 734 c1766 (Link to this contribution) The Committee will be free to debate the amendments when we reach them on the Marshalled List.
Earl Attlee | 734 c1766 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I may help the Committee, we cannot go backwards on the Marshalled List. We have decide...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1756 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have contributed. In reply to a point made earlier, I am not advocating ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1755-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the noble Lord is absolutely right. At the core of this—maybe not the right word—at the he...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 734 c1755 (Link to this contribution) I may be of some small assistance here. It is my understanding that life extension would be the resp...
Baroness Rawlings | 734 c1767 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have put the Question on Clause 17 prematurely. I suggest that we continue the debate.
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1767 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the authorities and the noble Lord in the Chair in connection with t...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1767 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, obviously, I am not formally moving the relevant amendments because we have not yet come t...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1767-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am perfectly happy to do that. Amendment 71A, which stands in my name, refers to line 11...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1769-73 (Link to this contribution) I must say that I am somewhat confused as to where we are on all this and whether, for example, I ha...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1773 (Link to this contribution) I did not speak to that amendment. I agree that it may not be entirely necessary. However, as the no...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1773 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for that. On the broad issue of references to the High C...
Baroness Rawlings | 734 c1773 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may tell all noble Lords that they should feel free to comment on any amendments...
Lord McCluskey | 734 c1773-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will comment in greater detail on the matter of certification. The lawyers among us will...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 734 c1767 (Link to this contribution) I am in some difficulty because in listening to what the noble and learned Lord has already said abo...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1767 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I ask a question? They are on the Marshalled List in this group; that is the point. We...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 734 c1747 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one of the curiosities of the current rail franchising process is that while the British G...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1747-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for tabling the amendment, which was debated in the other...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1746 (Link to this contribution) 26A: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause— ““Rail passenger services (1) In Part 2 of Sc...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1746-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall be very brief on this because I know that we have some of the most distinguished l...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1743-4 (Link to this contribution) I will deal with that very point. I started by saying very much what the Minister has said in his la...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1742-3 (Link to this contribution) I recognise the principle that my noble friend is enunciating. That is why I said that we do not kno...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 734 c1742 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble and learned friend for what he has just said, but the principle that my no...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1742 (Link to this contribution) I think that actually supports the argument that I was just making—that if the numbers are going up ...
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood | 734 c1741-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord for giving way and I promise not to intervene again, but there is...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1741 (Link to this contribution) The point I was making was that there was clear evidence, which we were looking at in about 2003 or ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 734 c1751-2 (Link to this contribution) I should like to follow my colleagues on this issue because for some time I was chairman of the Nucl...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 734 c1752 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, is this not a matter of Scottish democracy? I suggest that in 2016, the Labour Party in Sc...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 734 c1753-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Earl, Lord Mar and Kellie, who asked a legitimate que...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1754-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Sewel, for introducing this issue. I take the point he made t...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1750 (Link to this contribution) 26B: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause— ““Nuclear Power In Part 2 of Schedule 5 to th...
Lord Sewel | 734 c1750-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that we can get through this in under 12 minutes and break the Foulkes record. Righ...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 734 c1751 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the thoughts lying behind this amendment. When approached recently by an America...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1749 (Link to this contribution) What I am proposing would not overturn the structure of the railways in Great Britain as a whole, as...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1748-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, gave a fair analysis or description of what his amendment is intended ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 734 c1749-50 (Link to this contribution) On every previous occasion, I have said that I am really grateful to the Minister for listening care...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c1749 (Link to this contribution) I think it would, if we take it that GB includes Scotland. If Scotland could have a different model ...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 734 c1698 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we welcome the clarification that this amendment gives to this clause. It was never the Ca...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 734 c1731-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should declare an interest. I have recently been appointed as a trustee of the developme...
Baroness D'Souza | 734 c1783 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for the avoidance of doubt the Question is that Clause 17 stand part of the Bill. As many ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 734 c1744-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response to the debate which was very generous, giving what a...
Legislation
Scotland Bill 2010-12
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