UK Parliament / Open data

Local Government Finance Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 24 January 2012, in the House of Commons, led by Robert Neill.
Local Government Finance Bill. Committee stage (second day). Schedules 1-3 and clauses 2-5 agreed with some amendments. New clauses considered. Progress reported.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
539 c186-270 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Local Government Finance Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 265-EN also published.
Monday, 19 December 2011
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Robert Neill | 539 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) I take my hon. Friend's sensible point. That is why it will be done, if it is needed, by making a re...
Robert Syms | 539 c190 (Link to this contribution) I fully support the Government amendments, because what they propose is sensible when we are moving ...

Show all contributions (250)
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Helen Jones | 539 c191 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 27, page 21, line 12, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.
Helen Jones | 539 c190 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it would benefit many people to take a trip to Stockton-on-Tees, as my hon. Friend su...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c190 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear my hon. Friend advise the Minister that he should talk to local authorities ...
Helen Jones | 539 c192 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 27 is a probing amendment designed to test the Government's intentions with regard to the ...
Helen Jones | 539 c192-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. I, like other Opposition Members, have mentioned the Government'...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c196 (Link to this contribution) Is it not crucial not only to have a procedure whereby councils can appeal to the Secretary of State...
Helen Jones | 539 c196 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend says that they would. I do not think that that applies to the Under-Secretary o...
Helen Jones | 539 c196 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a worthwhile point. The problem with the whole Bill is that it is difficult for...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c199 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point about uncertainty. If a local authority's income mid-year falls be...
Lord Beamish | 539 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) said that the one thing that local ...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c199 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentioned Alcan—a major organisation—and the tragedy in Northumberland. Does he recal...
Lord Beamish | 539 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point and Samsung is a good example. Its inward investment provided jobs...
Helen Jones | 539 c194 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend, who is a very distinguished former local government Minister, is exactly right...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c194 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a telling point. Is it not extraordinary that not even the basic principles...
Helen Jones | 539 c194 (Link to this contribution) I remember that exchange between my right hon. Friend and the Secretary of State; he did not get a p...
Helen Jones | 539 c195 (Link to this contribution) Again, my right hon. Friend makes a telling point. The consultation document merely says that there ...
John Healey | 539 c195 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is developing a powerful case. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and W...
Helen Jones | 539 c195 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who makes a fair point about regulations. I do not know whether...
Mark Field | 539 c194-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making a fair point in relation to these probing amendments. Surely, however, a wor...
Helen Jones | 539 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend reminds me of a good point that I was going to make earlier. I had Northumberland in ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c195 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the situation would vary from authority to authority? For example, No...
Robert Syms | 539 c187 (Link to this contribution) Is it the Government's intention that the tariff will always equal the top-up—that no money will be ...
Robert Neill | 539 c187 (Link to this contribution) We will talk later about what is described as the central share, which is the proportion that may, a...
Lord Beamish | 539 c187 (Link to this contribution) If the answer to the question put by the hon. Member for Poole (Mr Syms) is that, yes, the Governmen...
Robert Neill | 539 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) On the first part of the hon. Gentleman's proposition, the Government have never made any secret of ...
Robert Neill | 539 c187 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept the hon. Lady's proposition. The whole point is that we are not dealing with the ind...
Helen Jones | 539 c189-90 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, Mr Hoyle. The Minister explained clearly the p...
George Howarth | 539 c188 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way; he has been generous. He may cover this later, but the...
Robert Neill | 539 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) In a later passage of the schedule, we deal with the operation of the set-aside and the safety net, ...
Robert Neill | 539 c186-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to be back here under your chairmanship, Mr Hoyle, dealing with the next part of th...
Lyn Brown | 539 c187 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the hon. Gentleman with interest. Is it not true that as a result of the financial...
Robert Neill | 539 c186 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 3, page 16, line 29, at end insert—
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c186 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 4 to 16.
George Howarth | 539 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark Field). ...
Mark Field | 539 c200 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) will be glad to hear that I am not speaking ju...
Robert Neill | 539 c205 (Link to this contribution) Inevitably, one would have to consider revisiting the levy. As it is reported annually, the objectiv...
Robert Neill | 539 c205 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I might make just a little more progress. The whole point of our concern is the need to giv...
Robert Neill | 539 c204 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend's point. I will not go down the route of giving such a specific example,...
Robert Syms | 539 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I think we are starting to learn a little bit more about this now. If there is a balance and it buil...
Robert Neill | 539 c205 (Link to this contribution) I envisage that the whole situation would be reconsidered when a reset was reached. The balance woul...
David Ward | 539 c205 (Link to this contribution) I am less concerned about a surplus on the account, as amendments we will consider later cover what ...
Robert Neill | 539 c203 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman really should not work himself up into a state of needless indignation, par...
Lord Beamish | 539 c204 (Link to this contribution) In trying to answer the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr...
Robert Neill | 539 c204 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to say to the hon. Gentleman that he is incorrect. As I said a moment ago, we intend to e...
Mark Field | 539 c204 (Link to this contribution) Given the context of the discussions that have taken place, I think it would help the Committee if w...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c203 (Link to this contribution) What the Minister has just said is really unacceptable. He says that he does not want to limit the o...
Robert Neill | 539 c203 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly not our intention that that would be the case in the ordinary course of events. I th...
Annette Brooke | 539 c202 (Link to this contribution) I think my hon. Friend is hitting on the same issue that I have in mind—the respective time periods....
Robert Neill | 539 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting and useful debate. The right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth) and ...
Annette Brooke | 539 c201 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make just a few comments, because I have listened intently to the discussion and fou...
George Howarth | 539 c201 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that there are several candidates. I remember a few, but it would be churlish to name name...
George Howarth | 539 c201 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend would give me another sleepless night.
Lord Beamish | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) Clearly councils will be compensated if they have significant losses, but the hon. Member for Bradfo...
Robert Neill | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) That is a degree of hypothesis that it is not realistic to deal with at this stage. If the hon. Gent...
John Healey | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has indeed been generous, but these are Committee proceedings. May I pursue the point r...
George Howarth | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) This might make me a bit unpopular on the Opposition Benches, but I think it is perfectly understand...
Robert Neill | 539 c207 (Link to this contribution) I think I can help the right hon. Gentleman and I note the very constructive way in which he makes h...
John Healey | 539 c207 (Link to this contribution) I want to believe that the Minister can make this work, but the more I listen to him, the more compl...
Robert Neill | 539 c207 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the right hon. Gentleman—I have genuine regard for his attention to detail in these ...
John Healey | 539 c207-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister, who is being generous in giving way. Whether it is the top-up and the...
Robert Neill | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the right hon. Gentleman, he makes the case for having a decent period between the r...
Robert Neill | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) As I recall, when we get to paragraph 26 we are looking at that ability, but let me double-check the...
Lord Beamish | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) May I pick up on what the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) said? In terms...
Robert Neill | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) First, it will depend on whether it was in a top-up or tariff scenario. Secondly, precisely because ...
Helen Jones | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being generous in giving way. Will he answer the point I put to him earlier? If an a...
Robert Neill | 539 c205 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to see you, Ms Primarolo.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) Good. I would like to hear you as well as see you.
Robert Neill | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. I was distracted momentarily by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c206 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman could move closer to the microphone and then we could all hear his excell...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c216 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that we are not here to talk about RDAs.
Mark Tami | 539 c216 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree that One North East was regarded across the country as one...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c216-7 (Link to this contribution) I will talk instead about PricewaterhouseCoopers, which evaluated the work of RDAs between 2002-03 a...
Helen Jones | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Robert Neill | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the right hon. Gentleman, to answer the question in those terms would prejudge the w...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c209 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Chris Williamson | 539 c209 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 30, page 22, line 28, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.
Chris Williamson | 539 c209-11 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. Amendments 30, 31 and 32 wer...
Chris Williamson | 539 c211 (Link to this contribution) I think I covered that point in my opening remarks, but the sort of thing that I am thinking of is r...
John Leech | 539 c211 (Link to this contribution) Would the term ““major redevelopment”” be based on the proportion of business rates that were to be ...
Chris Williamson | 539 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point, and where development was not significant, there would be little point in appl...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 539 c212 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I want to speak in support o...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c212 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of the situation facing the fire service in Cleveland? Teesside is the bigge...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c213 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a pertinent point about the way that metropolitan fire authorities in particula...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 539 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, Mr Robertson, but the point that my hon. Friend makes is accurate. It is clear that fire...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 539 c214 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Mr Robertson, but to understand the case for the safety net payments, it is important to ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c214 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind hon. Members that we are talking about safety net payments, not general payments.
Alex Cunningham | 539 c214-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you. I so declare, so that people do not think it is my wife's individual management that has ...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 539 c214 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, Mr Robertson. It's a fair cop, I suppose. I shall draw my remarks to a close. It is clear to...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c214 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak in support of amendments 30, 31, 32 and new clause 2, but before I start, I seek your ...
George Howarth | 539 c229 (Link to this contribution) Actually, paragraph 28 states:"““The Secretary of State may determine that an amount equal to the wh...
Robert Neill | 539 c229 (Link to this contribution) No, with respect, because first, there is flexibility to distribute all or part of the balance on th...
Robert Neill | 539 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) I will endeavour to confine myself to matters that are germane to the amendments, so I will be fairl...
Lord Beamish | 539 c228 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that has quite a ring to it. The council might have to do that to keep in with the Secretary of...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c228 (Link to this contribution) Order. But one that has absolutely nothing to do with the Bill.
George Howarth | 539 c228 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is developing an interesting argument.
Lord Beamish | 539 c228 (Link to this contribution) I obviously do not want to draw your wrath, Mr Robertson, for going off the subject, but time and ti...
Lord Beamish | 539 c226-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. One of the very deprived local authorities that the Government we...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c226 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an interesting point. I commend to him a study that produced a heat map sho...
Lord Beamish | 539 c226 (Link to this contribution) I think that this Secretary of State will be very creative. He will no doubt put out a press release...
Helen Jones | 539 c224 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is absolutely right. As we have said many times during these debates, the Government ar...
Graham P Jones | 539 c224 (Link to this contribution) We have localisation not only of national non-domestic rates but of council tax and housing benefit,...
Helen Jones | 539 c224 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is entirely correct. Local authority finance officers will no doubt respond to ...
John Healey | 539 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, prudent councils will set sums by against risk. The central problem with the system is its ...
Graham P Jones | 539 c226 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point about offsetting Government expenditure and local expenditure thro...
Lord Beamish | 539 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Robertson. My hon. Friend the Member fo...
Helen Jones | 539 c225 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right. Time and again we find in the Bill a lack of clarity and lack of c...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c224 (Link to this contribution) That goes back the nub of the problem from an earlier debate—the lack of certainty that is given to ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) If an authority did that—it would be prudent financial management—it would be named and shamed, a to...
Helen Jones | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point that we have not considered so far. I believe that local authority financ...
Helen Jones | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point. Whatever happens, some local authorities cannot win.
Helen Jones | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and many hon. Members have made that point in our debates on the Bill. It s...
Graham P Jones | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) My local authority is bracing itself not only for the cut; it will have to put further moneys aside ...
Helen Jones | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) Of course; we Joneses must stick together.
George Howarth | 539 c222 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentioned Knowsley. Does she accept that the problem is not just current, but stretch...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c223 (Link to this contribution) All my hon. Friend's argument supposes that the starting point was fair. Of course, an awful lot of ...
Helen Jones | 539 c222-3 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has hit on the key to the Bill. It is not simply wrong in the beginning; it wil...
Helen Jones | 539 c222 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, herself the former leader of a major local authority, makes a fair point. It is what...
Louise Ellman | 539 c222 (Link to this contribution) Does the Bill shed any light on the Government's decision to penalise Liverpool—the most deprived au...
Helen Jones | 539 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) That is interesting; I suppose that my hon. Friend could think about a change of name to get money f...
Lord Beamish | 539 c221 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's constituency is rather moderate; I have Marx, Engels and Lenin terraces in my const...
Helen Jones | 539 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. With these amendments, we return t...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c220 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Helen Jones | 539 c220 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 33, page 25, line 34, at end insert"'Any such distribution must be made on t...
Chris Williamson | 539 c220 (Link to this contribution) In view of the shortage of time, and with the leave of the Committee, I beg to ask leave to withdraw...
Robert Neill | 539 c219-20 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has not intervened in the debate before, so with respect I will press on to the n...
Lord Stunell | 539 c245 (Link to this contribution) On the right hon. Gentleman's first point, I agree and I am sorry if any of my remarks conveyed a di...
Lord Stunell | 539 c245 (Link to this contribution) I am so sorry, I will certainly give way.
Helen Jones | 539 c245 (Link to this contribution) No, the Minister quoted the actual growth in business rates. Anyone who thinks we are going to get t...
Lord Stunell | 539 c244 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Lady in a moment, but I want to mention Knowsley first. The right hon. M...
Lord Stunell | 539 c245 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the right hon. Gentleman and then to the hon. Lady.
George Howarth | 539 c245 (Link to this contribution) I need to make two points. First, when I spoke earlier I made the point that as far as I know there ...
Helen Jones | 539 c243 (Link to this contribution) The Minister and his colleagues keep talking about the growth incentive, so will he now answer one s...
Lord Stunell | 539 c244 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly not going to name an authority that is failing to get its inward investment, but I in...
Steve Rotheram | 539 c244 (Link to this contribution) It appears that the Minister is trying to advance the argument that that there are local authorities...
Lord Stunell | 539 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) Similar questions were asked about the Government's decision to apply the new homes bonus to empty h...
Andrew Turner | 539 c243 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain to me why floor authorities that get extra grant above that determined by ...
Lord Stunell | 539 c243 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for raising all those points. As I predicted, clearly a decision to retain da...
Lord Stunell | 539 c242 (Link to this contribution) I shall take an intervention, but perhaps the direction these interventions are coming from will giv...
Annette Brooke | 539 c243 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way, and this is a genuine question. Is it not true that the baselin...
Lord Stunell | 539 c243 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right and I will bring some of the facts and figures to the attention of the Commi...
Graham P Jones | 539 c242 (Link to this contribution) My local authority, Hyndburn borough council, has put away almost £1 million as a contingency for th...
Lord Stunell | 539 c242 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's point was raised in an earlier debate on the way in which local authorities wil...
Lord Stunell | 539 c242 (Link to this contribution) Actually, it confirms it absolutely. In another debate, the hon. Gentleman and I had an interesting ...
George Howarth | 539 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall give my hon. Friend two possible answers to his question, and I shall leave him to decide wh...
Lord Stunell | 539 c241 (Link to this contribution) The descriptions I have heard of myself today have varied enormously. The hon. Member for Birmingham...
Graham P Jones | 539 c241 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister made any assessment of the risk management carried out by local authorities, and of...
Andrew Turner | 539 c237 (Link to this contribution) How many headquarters are there on the Isle of Wight, which is in the south-east?
Helen Jones | 539 c237 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that they were in every constituency: I said that they are concentrated in London and ...
George Howarth | 539 c237-40 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) on amendment 65, whic...
Helen Jones | 539 c237 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises a point that I had not considered before, but he is right about that effect. P...
Graham P Jones | 539 c237 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it is grotesquely unfair that constituents in those poorer areas are ...
Helen Jones | 539 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Instead of a virtuous circle, authorities could end up in a vicious circle ...
Helen Jones | 539 c234 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 65, page 36, line 42, at end insert—
Graham P Jones | 539 c236 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend add to that list that, with a reducing income to pay for those needs, those auth...
Helen Jones | 539 c230 (Link to this contribution) If the Government do not intend to hold back payment, why have they included in the Bill provisions ...
George Howarth | 539 c230 (Link to this contribution) I have already mentioned paragraph 28. Sub-paragraph (1) refers to paragraph 19(2), which states tha...
Lord Beamish | 539 c229 (Link to this contribution) But the Bill does not state the criterion by which the remaining balance will be distributed. The Se...
Robert Neill | 539 c229 (Link to this contribution) The distribution will be subject to scrutiny by the House in a local government finance report. It i...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c217 (Link to this contribution) Given the breadth of recent contributions, I do not think that we need to have a stand part debate o...
Robert Neill | 539 c218 (Link to this contribution) No one has suggested to me that they do not have sufficient resources at the moment, and nothing in ...
Chris Williamson | 539 c218 (Link to this contribution) Of course I acknowledge the Minister's point on the distribution of funds, but we are entering a new...
Robert Neill | 539 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) It is good to see you back in the Chair, Mr Robertson. I will do my best to confine my remarks to th...
Chris Williamson | 539 c218 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister assure the Committee that all fire authorities in the country will have sufficient ...
Robert Neill | 539 c218-9 (Link to this contribution) Let me develop the point, because it may deal with the hon. Gentleman's question. Given that author...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c219 (Link to this contribution) Greater Manchester is one of the metropolitan fire authorities, and I understand that there will be ...
Robert Neill | 539 c218 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the hon. Gentleman, that is highly unlikely. In fact, I cannot conceive of such a si...
Robert Neill | 539 c219 (Link to this contribution) Greater Manchester is protected, because the top-up does not change between the reset periods, save ...
George Howarth | 539 c246 (Link to this contribution) Let me make it clear. I am not arguing that Westminster, Wokingham or even the Isle of Wight should ...
Lord Stunell | 539 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) I invite the hon. Lady to check her diary carefully and see exactly when it was that we had to buy a...
John Healey | 539 c246 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may have meant it lightly, but he has just said a serious thing. It suggests that Minis...
Lord Stunell | 539 c246 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman should be careful about making that argument; I might be tempted to take aw...
Robert Neill | 539 c265 (Link to this contribution) I can tell my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) that of course ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I know that the Secretary of State will say, ““We are giving you these local responsibilitie...
Robert Neill | 539 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not intend to give way. The Opposition proposal would simply recreate formula grant throug...
Lord Watts | 539 c265 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Watts | 539 c263 (Link to this contribution) The proof is in the pudding, is it not? Not one council that has a high level of deprivation support...
Lord Beamish | 539 c263 (Link to this contribution) They are. My hon. Friend mentioned that map earlier and it only has to be seen—it screams inequality...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c264 (Link to this contribution) We spoke earlier about the need for local government to have certainty and the fact that the Bill do...
Lord Beamish | 539 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) That is right. This issue is highly political. All credit to the Secretary of State—he knows exactly...
Lord Beamish | 539 c263 (Link to this contribution) I do. In regions such that represented by my right hon. Friend, there will be regional disparities b...
George Howarth | 539 c262 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that as well as the regional disparity he has described there are dispari...
Lord Beamish | 539 c262 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and Nor...
Annette Brooke | 539 c261 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. I wish to make a few brief comments. I...
Helen Jones | 539 c261 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I want to wind up, because others want to get in before 10 pm...
Helen Jones | 539 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I am going to make a bit of progress, because we have to get through. The way to avoid those proble...
Lord Beamish | 539 c263 (Link to this contribution) Exactly. Hidden in the Bill is the localisation of council tax benefit, which the Minister does not ...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c263 (Link to this contribution) Is the situation not worse than that, because the plans do not just lock in the funding from one per...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid I have to tell the right hon. Gentleman that that is not a point of order. The Committee...
Tom Harris | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Mr Amess. I wonder whether you could clarify a rule of which many of...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c253 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby. The Committee having divided:...
John Healey | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Amess. The Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, th...
Lord Stunell | 539 c247 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Lady is asking a question about revenue support grant, and that is the answer ...
Helen Jones | 539 c248 (Link to this contribution) I want to respond to what the Minister said, because I am not entirely sure, having listened to him,...
Lord Stunell | 539 c247 (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed with that, I have to say. I said very clearly that the Government have reached a s...
Helen Jones | 539 c247 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but most of the grants that the hon. Gentleman mentioned could not be run through needs ...
Lord Stunell | 539 c246 (Link to this contribution) That is of course wilfully misunderstanding the point I made. The damping mechanism means that Knows...
George Howarth | 539 c247 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that in the morning, when the Minister has a quiet moment—I am sure that he has them in hi...
Mike Freer | 539 c260 (Link to this contribution) If the Opposition are so keen on resets and the ability to affect the calculation based on need and ...
Helen Jones | 539 c260 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, the difference is that when we were looking at local government finance...
Lord Watts | 539 c258 (Link to this contribution) It is bad enough that the Minister is introducing a Bill that means that no hon. Member can work out...
Helen Jones | 539 c258-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who is a clear expert in local government finance makes a valid point—[Interruption....
Lord Watts | 539 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) Is that not exactly what the Government want? They want to show that local authorities have been lef...
Helen Jones | 539 c260 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, we have discussed what the Government are trying to achieve many times in d...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c259 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene again, but this issue is a hobby horse of mine. The general unfairness of th...
Helen Jones | 539 c259 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point and I have discussed with representatives of his local author...
Helen Jones | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c258 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 7—Resets of the non-domestic rates retention s...
Helen Jones | 539 c258 (Link to this contribution) It is nice to see the Minister in his place after the time he spent quivering with fear in the Lobby...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c258 (Link to this contribution) Like me, my hon. Friend might have seen SIGOMA research that shows that all councils face a drop in ...
Helen Jones | 539 c258 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend highlights the problem throughout the Bill, but the longer the period between resets,...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) It is perfectly in order, whether it be unusual or not for the Minister to have done what he did.
Lord Watts | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Amess.
Lord Watts | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) It is on a different point. Is it possible, Mr Amess, to extend the time of this debate by 15 minute...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c257 (Link to this contribution) I must tell the hon. Gentleman that I have no powers to do so. Any more points of order would obviou...
Lord Beamish | 539 c192 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend think that local government will feel confident that power is not being centrali...
John Healey | 539 c193 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend posed the question of how anyone could have certainty about what will and will not ap...
Robert Syms | 539 c196-7 (Link to this contribution) It would be helpful to have a little more detail as soon as possible on what the Government mean. I ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c199 (Link to this contribution) They did. If local authorities have to lay people off mid-year and sever contracts, that costs local...
Helen Jones | 539 c203 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying the Government's intention to proceed via regulation, b...
George Hollingbery | 539 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Lady knows the answer to a question that is confusing me—I apologise to th...
Mark Field | 539 c201 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman mentions Schleswig-Holstein, but he has not gone into detail about which lo...
Robert Neill | 539 c208 (Link to this contribution) I have been very generous and I am about to finish, but I will give way once more.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c212 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I ask the hon. Gentleman to come back on to the amendment? We are not here to talk about ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c214 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman's point, but I think we will go back to the safety net, if that is all rig...
George Howarth | 539 c228 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend is aware of the fact that there was a residents group in Liverpool t...
Helen Jones | 539 c245 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way, but I have to say that he is advancing an entirel...
Robert Neill | 539 c230-1 (Link to this contribution) It is equally useful to have those provisions to deal with in-year payments, and I have already indi...
John Leech | 539 c211 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman say exactly what he defines as a major redevelopment scheme?
Steve Rotheram | 539 c240 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making a powerful point about the needs of specific areas, and he is correct...
Robert Neill | 539 c230 (Link to this contribution) That just enables the sum to be carried over. The point is that it would remain in the same account....
Steve Rotheram | 539 c263 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of the heat map that has been produced that illustrates precisely what he is...
Lord Beamish | 539 c188 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that in future, grants that currently come from central Government taxation a...
Robert Neill | 539 c188 (Link to this contribution) The danger in the hon. Gentleman's formulation is in assuming that that would shift all funding in t...
Subjects
Council tax
Local government
Local government finance
Powers
Payments
Business rates
Revenue support grant
Legislation
Local Government Finance Bill 2010-12 to 2012-13
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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