Parliamentary search - Welfare Reform Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

731 c457-520GC

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Welfare Reform Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 75-EN also published.
Thursday, 16 June 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Seventeenth report on: Armed Forces Bill; Welfare Reform Bill; Scotland Bill; Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill - Government response. (Lords Minutes).
Wednesday, 13 July 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c468GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that. I thought that that was exactly the point I made. The question was regarding the ...

Lord Freud | 731 c468GC (Link to this contribution) We are going round in circles. We all know the point that is being made. We all know the reality of ...

Show all contributions (122)

Baroness Sherlock | 731 c466GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to save the Minister getting up twice, as I want to ask him a question on a similar...

Baroness Sherlock | 731 c467GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. I hear very clearly his sympathy for this issue. If it is s...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c462-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment seeks to tackle the introduction, under UC, of a poor work incentive for se...

Lord Freud | 731 c486GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it will go somewhere in between. It will be a capital limit as opposed to a tariff income ...

Lord Freud | 731 c499GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will follow up the Croydon situation. I was not aware of it, even though I was brought u...

Lord Wigley | 731 c504GC (Link to this contribution) I note what the Minister says. He suggests that there could be some deliberate refusal to engage in ...

Lord Wigley | 731 c504-5GC (Link to this contribution) That would indeed be interesting. No doubt we will hear if that is the case. However, on this amendm...

Lord Freud | 731 c517GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, how we research changing universal credit is something that I am taking an active interest...

Lord Freud | 731 c519GC (Link to this contribution) 62: Clause 43, page 20, line 17, at end insert— ““( ) section 18(3) and (5) (work availability requi...

Lord Freud | 731 c517-8GC (Link to this contribution) 56A: Before Clause 42, insert the following new Clause— ““Pilot schemes (1) Any power to make— (a) r...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c515-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may make one brief point. In common with others around the table today, I have h...

Lord De Mauley | 731 c520GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.

Lord Freud | 731 c517GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I know it is not our House, but I point out that the Work and Pensions Select Committee ha...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c517GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister sits down I would like to make clear that I was not arguing for a sepa...

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 731 c517GC (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord tell us who would be responsible for promoting and funding research into these qu...

Lord Freud | 731 c519-20GC (Link to this contribution) 69A: Clause 43, page 20, line 25, leave out from beginning to ““(pilot”” and insert ““by virtue of s...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c517GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my main priority is to get back to my bath as soon as possible. If I do not get my 7 pm tr...

Lord Freud | 731 c518GC (Link to this contribution) 57: Clause 43, page 20, line 9, at end insert— ““( ) section 4(7) (acceptance of claimant commitment...

Lord Freud | 731 c518GC (Link to this contribution) 60: Clause 43, page 20, line 14, leave out from ““10(3)”” to end of line 15 and insert ““and (4) (ch...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c491-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment. As has been stated, the WCA is about deciding whether a claimant...

Baroness Grey-Thompson | 731 c490-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support this amendment and I, too, wish to speak about the assessment process. A n...

Baroness Wilkins | 731 c488-90GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly support this amendment in the hope that it will go someway to meeting the fears...

Lord Wigley | 731 c488GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very pleased to support this amendment. One is very aware of the tremendous work that...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 731 c487-8GC (Link to this contribution) I present the sincere apologies of my noble friend Lady Mar. She had very much hoped that this amend...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 731 c486-7GC (Link to this contribution) 55C: Clause 38, page 17, line 32, at end insert— ““(6A) Regulations under this section must provide ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c486GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that—well, I am grateful for the answer, not necessarily the information. It is th...

Lord Wigley | 731 c494GC (Link to this contribution) I invite the noble Lord to comment on the relevance of assistance in work. If people are available t...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c493-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an interesting and challenging amendment and the debate has been deeply concerning...

Lord McAvoy | 731 c492GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as a former Member of the other House with experience of constituency cases and organisati...

Lord Freud | 731 c484-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the intention is that the housing credit will broadly follow the current rules that apply ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c484GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a probing amendment to seek the best understanding we can about how support for ho...

Lord Freud | 731 c485-6GC (Link to this contribution) We are looking very closely at the support for mortgage interest. I can let the Committee know that ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c485GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will the Minister make sure that that letter includes the answer to a question which was a...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c484GC (Link to this contribution) 55ZA: Schedule 4, page 123, leave out lines 18 and 19

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c483GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 52DA withdrawn. Amendment 52DB not moved. Schedu...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c486GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for a number of detailed replies, with some follow-up, but can ...

Lord Freud | 731 c486GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is correct.

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c486GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, that will operate for pension credit as well as the housing component.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 731 c499GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has certainly been a very wide-ranging and passionate debate on these issues, with go...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c502-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we should thank the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, for reminding us of the scope there is in the...

Lord German | 731 c502GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not able to support the amendment in the format in which the noble Lord has presented...

Lord Wigley | 731 c499-502GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister will not be entirely surprised that I raise the question of the possible knoc...

Lord Wigley | 731 c499GC (Link to this contribution) 55D: After Clause 39, insert the following new Clause— ““Effect on devolved administrations Where th...

Lord Wigley | 731 c504GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his response. I am intrigued by the way in which this bureaucracy ...

Lord Freud | 731 c503-4GC (Link to this contribution) The issue is that if there is an additional, formal process, requiring a formal level of discussion ...

Lord Wigley | 731 c503GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister clarify how that bureaucracy comes about?

Lord Freud | 731 c503GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am also looking forward to reading the Low review but I have been listening with great i...

Lord Freud | 731 c504GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, let me make myself utterly clear. If we had a statutory duty to discuss and if a devolved ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c494GC (Link to this contribution) Dials not dichotomies.

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c494GC (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. He is absolutely right about that. I imagine tha...

Lord Freud | 731 c495GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should start by making a point about the overall attitude of the Government to people wh...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c494-5GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed. Perhaps I may finish off with a question. I think that earlier in our deliberations we touch...

Lord Freud | 731 c496-8GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, Professor Harrington is currently looking at two areas: mental health conditions and fluctuatin...

Baroness Wilkins | 731 c495GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that he has not yet received the report of Professor Harrington’s working p...

Lord Freud | 731 c498GC (Link to this contribution) It is clear that a lot of changes are going on and I am not surprised that people do not understand ...

Lord Wigley | 731 c498GC (Link to this contribution) May I press the Minister a little further on the position of people who might be capable of work if ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c498-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I ask the Minister a couple of questions? The first is about Atos. I was slightly take...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c509GC (Link to this contribution) I have no idea—it was a thought in my bath. I confessed that at the beginning. However, it is worth ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c509GC (Link to this contribution) How does the noble Lord envisage definitions of avoidable complexity being built in to the legislati...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c508-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find to my surprise that I have an amendment in the middle of this group, Amendment 71, ...

Lord Freud | 731 c516-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I share the noble Lord’s concern that the benefits system must be fair, efficient and affo...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c514GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak briefly in support of Amendment 113. I do not know whether this was another ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c514-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I declare an interest in regulatory and professional services, having chaired the Legal Se...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c512GC (Link to this contribution) 56: After Clause 41, insert the following new Clause— ““Benefit regulator Nothing in this Part shall...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 731 c512-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that in the remaining few minutes before the Committee considers wrapping up for th...

Lord Freud | 731 c509-11GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in some areas I broadly agree with the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c511GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am happy to do so. However, I should like to comment on the issue of avoidable complexit...

Lord Freud | 731 c504GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I could not reveal any confidences about the discussions that I have had with Ministers in...

Lord Wigley | 731 c505GC (Link to this contribution) I have probably got as far as I will get by rattling around this set of bones but this is clearly a ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c505GC (Link to this contribution) 55E: Clause 41, page 18, line 35, at end insert ““subject to section 43(3A)””

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c505GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to our other amendments in this group, Amendments 55G, 56B and 69ZA. Th...

Lord German | 731 c505-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to the amendments in my name, Amendments 59, 61, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69,...

Lord Wigley | 731 c504GC (Link to this contribution) I understand where the Minister is coming from. However, the point is that there may well be a diffe...

Lord McAvoy | 731 c504GC (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, perhaps interested in asking the Minister whether these confidential...

Lord Freud | 731 c505GC (Link to this contribution) I repeat my point: we are absolutely moving in line with devolution guidance. We have no intention o...

Lord Freud | 731 c480-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am well aware of the work of my noble friend Lady Thomas on this, although perhaps not q...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c479-80GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the thrust of the noble Baroness’s amendment. I do not think that there was much...

Lord Freud | 731 c482GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will look at it, but I am not sure I need to study it very hard. As I understand it, the...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c481-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Minister a question. I chair a housing association, as I have declar...

Baroness Wilkins | 731 c479GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment which has been so comprehensively introduced by the noble Baroness...

Lord Freud | 731 c483GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will have an early meeting with my noble friend on this, and we will take it from there....

Lord Freud | 731 c482GC (Link to this contribution) We do not need a legislative peg in primary legislation to make changes here. That was a reference t...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c482GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, for his support, as does my noble friend Lady Wilkins. I woul...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c483GC (Link to this contribution) Could the noble Lord arrange to send us copies of the earlier advice, because there is some confusio...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c482-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am caught between two pieces of advice: one is that we do need legislation and one is that we do n...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c474GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister help us on one point? I am interested in the practicalities and operation. He said ...

Lord Freud | 731 c473GC (Link to this contribution) I think we are now into the realms of minutiae. This has been subject to a substantial change. It wa...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c473GC (Link to this contribution) There is a limit on how much of your pot can attract higher-rate tax rates, which is the £50,000 fig...

Lord Freud | 731 c473GC (Link to this contribution) On that basis, I am probably the wrong person to interrogate on this matter.

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c476-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the wording of my amendment is taken straight from Statutory Instrument 2678, the Social S...

Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 731 c475-6GC (Link to this contribution) 52DA: Schedule 1, page 107, line 26, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of introducing Regulation...

Baroness Drake | 731 c474-5GC (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the Minister has to give the Government’s reasoning behind this decision, but I am...

Lord Freud | 731 c474GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, we have commissioned that as part of the requirements.

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c474GC (Link to this contribution) I accept that you might have the net and the gross figures, but do you not now need another figure, ...

Lord Freud | 731 c474GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we had a session earlier today trying to go through what the universal credit shows. Witho...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c468-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have supported the amendment with some helpful additions to the ar...

Baroness Drake | 731 c469-72GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to allow regulations to specify that pension contribution...

Baroness Drake | 731 c469GC (Link to this contribution) 52D: Schedule 1, page 107, line 26, at end insert— ““( ) Regulations may specify that the pension co...

Lord Freud | 731 c472-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 52D would take a power to disregard the full amount of any pension contributions...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 731 c472GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want to add anything to the very full argument around the policy that my noble fr...

Lord Freud | 731 c473GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think I am caught being slightly puzzled. I was strongly under the impression that pensi...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c473GC (Link to this contribution) I was slightly taken aback by the Minister saying that he thought 100 per cent disregards in tax cre...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c473GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is wrong.

Lord Beecham | 731 c466-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I ask what I hope is a final question? The Minister rightly referred to the fact that ...

Lord Freud | 731 c467GC (Link to this contribution) I will not give that kind of assurance to noble Lords. This is clearly—

Lord Freud | 731 c467GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, let me try to pick up some of those points. Picking up the point of the noble Baroness, La...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 731 c467GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister stands up, as I think he might like to get everything together, there were two q...

Lord Freud | 731 c468GC (Link to this contribution) In this example, there is a 65 per cent taper. Thereby, extra earnings produce an increased income o...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c468GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Minister on his nimble footwork; it was very impressive. However, what happens to...

Lord Freud | 731 c468GC (Link to this contribution) Stop teasing me. The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, made the point about VAT; there is clearly a missing ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c467GC (Link to this contribution) You could, you know.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c464GC (Link to this contribution) Is that as an addition to the second earner?

Lord Freud | 731 c464GC (Link to this contribution) I said £700.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c464GC (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister be very detailed in his costings. When he says an additional £750—

Lord Freud | 731 c464GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have enjoyed what we are calling the bevy of ladies on the other side. Their intellectua...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 731 c465-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I deliberately did not follow my noble friend after such a full, strong and powerful speec...

Lord Freud | 731 c464-5GC (Link to this contribution) There was a question around that, so I will endeavour to supply all the information I possibly can. ...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 731 c462GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness on the detailed and effective way in which she has prese...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c457GC (Link to this contribution) 52C: Schedule 1, page 107, line 26, at end insert— ““( ) In the case of joint claimants, regulations...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 731 c457-62GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of the amendment is write into the Bill a requirement to provide an earnings d...

Subjects

Complaints

Disability

Disclosure of information

Devolved matters

Childcare

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Housing benefit

Employment

Jobseeker's allowance

Earnings rules