Parliamentary search - Welfare Reform Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

730 c403-52GC

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Welfare Reform Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 75-EN also published.
Thursday, 16 June 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Seventeenth report on: Armed Forces Bill; Welfare Reform Bill; Scotland Bill; Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill - Government response. (Lords Minutes).
Wednesday, 13 July 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Skelmersdale | 730 c435GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the debate continues, I have to say that I am afraid that the noble Lord, Lord McAv...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c431-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have little to add to the rather remarkable contribution made by my noble friend Lady Li...

Show all contributions (107)

Lord De Mauley | 730 c444GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this might be an appropriate moment to have a 10-minute comfort break.

Lord Freud | 730 c442GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the spirit of developing a system together, which we seem to have moved into, we can lo...

Baroness Drake | 730 c410GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on the point about people who sell their houses and have capital from that, current rules ...

Lord Freud | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will complete my response to the questions. If we were to take a £50,000 limit with the ...

Earl of Listowel | 730 c413GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was most grateful to the Minister for his previous reply and for the offer of detailed i...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c450GC (Link to this contribution) I am so sorry. What was the previous figure, not including take-up modelling?

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c421GC (Link to this contribution) Very soon?

Lord Freud | 730 c408GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have to confess to the noble Baroness that I do not have my hands on that particular fig...

Lord McAvoy | 730 c442GC (Link to this contribution) The system has a degree of flexibility if you alter the way benefits are paid. For instance, when it...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c451-2GC (Link to this contribution) Some of my comments will not be appreciated but I thank the Minister for his response. Clearly, I ha...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c451GC (Link to this contribution) I think that ““um”” would be a very good response from the Minister.

Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c451GC (Link to this contribution) It is all right; I am not going to say any more.

Lord Freud | 730 c451GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will just have to take that point on board. After our previous session, I know that—

Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c451GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, since this seems to be the time for Tory interventions, and his re...

Lord Skelmersdale | 730 c450GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful.

Lord Freud | 730 c450GC (Link to this contribution) I did not mention it for a very good reason. I am currently consulting across government on how best...

Lord Skelmersdale | 730 c450GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend will no doubt remember that many years ago I was the Minister for War Pens...

Lord Freud | 730 c450GC (Link to this contribution) They are exactly the same—200,000 and 400,000 adults. Those figures have not changed. Let me come ba...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c452GC (Link to this contribution) —and can announce a different taper rate. With those comments, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c452GC (Link to this contribution) Do not wish that on me.

Lord De Mauley | 730 c452GC (Link to this contribution) I suggest that this would be a convenient moment to adjourn the Committee until Thursday at 2 pm.

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c441GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister suggested that payments for those with mental health problems, for example, c...

Lord Freud | 730 c439-41GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, on her first amendment, and I h...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c439GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment of my noble friend Lady Lister and congratulate her on an incredib...

Earl of Listowel | 730 c433-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Baroness, Lady Lister of Burtersett, for tabling these amendments ...

Lord Boswell of Aynho | 730 c434GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly. Points have been made very eloquently by the noble Baroness, Lady Li...

Lord Skelmersdale | 730 c433GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at Second Reading I think all of us supported the idea of simplicity for universal credit....

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 730 c435-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, on her excellent exposition of the case an...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c436-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment of my noble friend Lady Lister, which she moved so powerfully, and...

Lord McAvoy | 730 c434-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, although I did not intend to speak after the amendment was moved so excellently by my nobl...

Lord Northbourne | 730 c431GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want to delay the Committee. I am sure there are many people in this room who hav...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 730 c429-31GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am privileged enough to share the billing on the amendment with the noble Baroness, Lady...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 730 c432-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would also like to support the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, and congrat...

Lord Freud | 730 c424GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, our intention is to have it broadly the same. We have to work through the exact detail of ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c424GC (Link to this contribution) Specifically, if housing benefit were not currently subject to those rules, how would that be unpick...

Lord Freud | 730 c424GC (Link to this contribution) We would wrap them together in the universal credit but maintain the same regime for trading dispute...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c424-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful again to the Minister. We should like to reflect and read the record on that issue, an...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 730 c425GC (Link to this contribution) 25: Clause 7, page 3, line 35, leave out from ““payable”” to end of line 36 and insert ““twice per m...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 730 c425-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is the first time I have moved an amendment, so I hope your Lordships will be gentle ...

Lord Freud | 730 c450GC (Link to this contribution) I can absolutely confirm that the figures included take-up and are the same figures, so there is no ...

Lord Haskel | 730 c444GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned for 10 minutes. Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. Clau...

Lord Freud | 730 c449GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, for children lifted out of poverty, the figure 350,000 is unchanged. I am sorry; I can only tel...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c449GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. I wanted to phrase my question more precisely because I think I may have confu...

Lord Freud | 730 c449GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I can help noble Lords. There is a small decline for adults in this impact assessment compared ...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c449GC (Link to this contribution) Is it unchanged?

Lord Freud | 730 c447-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 29 specifies that deductions from the claimant’s maximum amount of universal cre...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c449GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. I am trying to look through the revised impact assessment, as I am sure will o...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c445GC (Link to this contribution) 29: Clause 8, page 4, line 12, at end insert— ““( ) an amount in respect of prescribed unearned inco...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 730 c445-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, depending on how the Minister responds, Amendment 29 is, I hope, a probing amendment. It d...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 730 c444GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, who perhaps I could call a noble friend from the past. Being n...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c442GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for the care and attention that the Minister has given to the questions. However,...

Lord Freud | 730 c442-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought I had delicately hinted that there could be some flexibility around that. In fut...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 730 c443-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friends and noble Lords for their support. I am struck by t...

Lord Newton of Braintree | 730 c444GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for intervening: I probably should not, as I was not here earlier. However, if the House...

Lord Freud | 730 c441GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was coming to this issue. The universal credit is a rather differently structured benefi...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 730 c441GC (Link to this contribution) May I clarify the point for the avoidance of doubt? Is there a technical issue about frequency of pa...

Lord Freud | 730 c441-2GC (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Lord, with his normal subtlety in his amendment, has made a distinction between bi...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to interrupt but noble Lords will see that there is a Division in the Chamber, ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) No, they are not behavioural.

Baroness Drake | 730 c410GC (Link to this contribution) 22B: Clause 5, page 3, line 7, after ““it”” insert ““excluding amounts in an Individual Savings Acco...

Baroness Drake | 730 c410-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in moving Amendment 22B, I shall also speak to Amendment 22F, which seeks to exclude amoun...

Lord Freud | 730 c410GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will have to write to the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, with precise information on that.

Lord Freud | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, a careful assessment has been done of how it will work in practice, which incorporate...

Earl of Listowel | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that the Minister will forgive me if I ask his help on a point of detail. It may co...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving us the figures. Perhaps he could make it clear that embedde...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c413GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have little to add to what my noble friend said about her amendment, which she moved com...

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 730 c413-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like briefly to support this amendment by reminding Members of what happened when ...

Lord Freud | 730 c415-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 22B and 22F would exclude from the calculation of capital any savings placed in...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c416GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister confirm that tax credits and ISA income are not included but are exempt? Is that r...

Lord Freud | 730 c416GC (Link to this contribution) I will have to write to the noble Lord on ISA income in tax credits. I do not know the exact positio...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c414-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support my noble friend’s amendment, which was so impressively and eloquently move...

Earl of Listowel | 730 c415GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am afraid my last comments were probably not very clear, for which I apologise. The ques...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 730 c415GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having listened to the detailed arguments, which were extremely well put, if I may say so,...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c415GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to add one final word. Could the Minister reflect for us briefly on one of th...

Baroness Drake | 730 c417-8GC (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that defence because tax relief on pension savings is not taking money away from peo...

Lord Freud | 730 c417GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I cannot not respond to that because there is a difference. I think everyone in the ...

Baroness Drake | 730 c417GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister opened by asking whether the taxpayer should support someone with £50,000 in savings. M...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c416-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord started off with a question that I suspect was meant to be rhetorical, but ...

Baroness Drake | 730 c418GC (Link to this contribution) 22C: Clause 5, page 3, line 7, after ““it”” insert ““excluding such prescribed amounts saved for a d...

Baroness Drake | 730 c418-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in moving Amendment 22C, I also wish to speak to Amendment 22D, which seeks to exclude amo...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 730 c418GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness again, but a Division has been called in the Chamber. The...

Baroness Drake | 730 c418GC (Link to this contribution) I will just complete what I was saying. I think I made the point about those who are better off and ...

Lord Wigley | 730 c419-20GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment very warmly indeed, and put to the Minister circumstances that ar...

Baroness Sherlock | 730 c420GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to make one brief point about the sums of money that are increasingly needed to save fo...

Lord Freud | 730 c420-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 22C and 22D would exclude from the calculation of capital prescribed amounts sa...

Lord Freud | 730 c421GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I need not write to the noble Lord on this matter because I am trustful that the impact as...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c421GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord may need to write to us to flesh out some detail about the £4 billion, a figure that ...

Lord Freud | 730 c421GC (Link to this contribution) I was going to say today. In fact, I can say more. I have copies in the Room. I can do better; I can...

Baroness Drake | 730 c421-2GC (Link to this contribution) In response to the Minister, I am able to pre-empt his arguments because the quality of the DWP brie...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c422GC (Link to this contribution) 23: Clause 6, page 3, line 20, leave out paragraph (a)

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c422-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a straightforward and, I hope, brief probing amendment to Clause 6. This clause is...

Lord Freud | 730 c423-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 23 and 24. Amendment 23 removes the power to make regulations f...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c424GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response on the issue of negative or affirmative, to which we...

Baroness Drake | 730 c403GC (Link to this contribution) 22A: Clause 5, page 3, line 7, after ““it”” insert ““excluding amounts arising from the sale of a pr...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c405-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak in support of my noble friend’s amendment and to catch up on one or two points. We...

Baroness Drake | 730 c403-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in moving Amendment 22A I will also speak to Amendments 22E and 52A. Amendment 52A is a pr...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 730 c406GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support these amendments. I understand that this is a rather difficult question, b...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 730 c407GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord can help me a little on some of the practicalities of that. We are saying tha...

Lord Freud | 730 c406-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is one of three amendments about capital. I shall start by explaining our intentions ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c408GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord can help me with some stats. It was interesting that in hi...

Lord Freud | 730 c407GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords. The way it works is that the amount of money that is being reserved for the purchase ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c408GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want ““the fullness of time””; I want very soon, just as with childcare—the day a...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 730 c408-9GC (Link to this contribution) Forgive me, but that is the net cost. If you removed the cap entirely and instead took into account ...

Lord Freud | 730 c408GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I withdraw my previous reluctance to provide a figure. In much less time than I thought, I...

Lord Freud | 730 c409GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can clarify. That is a gross figure. Behavioural changes, clearly—

Subjects

Capital rules

Jobseeker's allowance

Eligibility

Income

Individual savings accounts

Personal savings

Low incomes

Payments

Property transfer

Property