UK Parliament / Open data

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Finance (No. 3) Bill. Committee stage second day. Clause 4 debated and agreed to on question. Clause 10 debated and agreed to on question, with an amendment negatived on division (121 votes to 249). Clause 35 debated and agreed to on question. Bill (Clauses 4, 7, 10, 19, 35 and 72), as amended, to be reported. [Relevant document: The Eleventh Report from the Treasury Committee, Finance (No.3) Bill 2010-11, HC 497.]
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
527 c686-746 
Session
2010-12
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Jim Shannon | 527 c689 (Link to this contribution) Obviously any advantage to industry is to be welcomed. I understand that figures released show that ...
Edward Timpson | 527 c687 (Link to this contribution) On anticipating the outcomes of reducing corporation tax, does my hon. Friend recall that one key as...

Show all contributions (173)
David Gauke | 527 c687-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because he brings me to the subject of the small profits rate of co...
Andrew Love | 527 c688 (Link to this contribution) When the Office for Budget Responsibility was informed late of the additional 1% reduction in corpor...
David Gauke | 527 c688 (Link to this contribution) Let me turn to the impact of this measure. When the OBR analysed the corporation tax package that wa...
David Gauke | 527 c686 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to begin today's proceedings by winding up today's debate, or at least the fi...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c686-7 (Link to this contribution) I realise that we debated this much earlier this morning, but much of our discussion was on the outc...
David Gauke | 527 c687 (Link to this contribution) First, I warmly welcome what the right hon. Gentleman says about supporting the reduction in the cor...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c688 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to be helpful and to seek clarity on what the Exchequer Secretary would regard as succes...
David Gauke | 527 c689 (Link to this contribution) As I said, the OBR considered the package in the June 2010 Budget and incorporated the changes along...
Andrew Love | 527 c707-8 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. One has to question, as I am doing, the Government's whole strategy, which they call a g...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c708 (Link to this contribution) Is it not a fact that for the international companies seeking to invest inwardly in the United Kingd...
Andrew Love | 527 c708-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, absolutely. If we look at business investment, which in some senses reflects how optimistic emp...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c709 (Link to this contribution) Order. I appreciate that the Government themselves have said that corporation tax and capital allowa...
Andrew Love | 527 c709 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for your guidance, Ms Primarolo. I will move swiftly on to capital allowances. The Governm...
Andrew Love | 527 c710 (Link to this contribution) I agree. If we take the coalition at face value, it has suggested that we need a vibrant small busin...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c709-10 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been incredibly generous in accepting interventions. I am not sure of the extent ...
Andrew Love | 527 c710 (Link to this contribution) I agree, as other Members do, that that is not an unreasonable request. If the Government choose not...
Jim Fitzpatrick | 527 c710 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, like most of the speakers in this debate, is generously supporting the modest amendm...
Andrew Love | 527 c710-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes my point. That is exactly why, once the changes have been introduced, we need t...
John McDonnell | 527 c710 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Ms Primarolo, for leaving the Chamber earlier. Should there not be some consultation of...
David Gauke | 527 c712-4 (Link to this contribution) Again, my hon. Friend raises an interesting point. We look forward to receiving any representations ...
David Gauke | 527 c711-2 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 6 would require the Chancellor to publish by 31 October 2012 an assessment of the impact o...
Nigel Mills | 527 c712 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding me of that study from almost a decade ago. I gently po...
David Gauke | 527 c719 (Link to this contribution) I am following the right hon. Gentleman's speech closely. Will he clarify for the Committee whether ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c717-9 (Link to this contribution) Once again, Mr Evans, I welcome you and look forward to your time in the Chair as we debate clause 3...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c714 (Link to this contribution) Good afternoon, Mr Evans. Can I welcome you to the Chair of this seemingly unending Committee, which...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c719-20 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has set out a series of measures that the Government are implementing in the Bu...
David Gauke | 527 c719 (Link to this contribution) Does the Labour party remain committed to its proposals in government to use that funding for 65,000...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c719 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, the Labour Government's original proposal, which was announced by the then Prime Min...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c720 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. It is a fact of life that child care often remains the prime responsibility of the woman. Ch...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c720-1 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend touches on the great steps made under the previous Government to alleviate chil...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c721-2 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has an opportunity to clarify the Government's approach to the provision of child care....
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c691 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss clause stand part.
Andrew Love | 527 c689-90 (Link to this contribution) May I press the Exchequer Secretary on the benefits for growth and potential employment arising from...
David Gauke | 527 c689 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that we will debate manufacturing at greater length in the next group of amendments. Howev...
Gareth Thomas | 527 c690 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to have missed the many speeches yesterday by the Exchequer Secretary and in particular m...
David Gauke | 527 c690 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for acknowledging that it is a significant gap. It is a consider...
Gareth Thomas | 527 c690 (Link to this contribution) That is not answering the question.
David Gauke | 527 c690 (Link to this contribution) I am a little disappointed that an Opposition Front Bencher should be so negative about the reductio...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c691 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 6, page 6, line 22, at end add—
David Gauke | 527 c690-1 (Link to this contribution) Let me make this point. The hon. Gentleman talked about being in west Worcestershire. I was there tw...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c691 (Link to this contribution) You have caught me slightly off guard, Mr Hoyle. I was expecting my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c691-2 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making an important point that is indeed linked with the previous clause. Cl...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c692-3 (Link to this contribution) I want to refer to a number of comments that have been made in this debate. Perhaps I could start by...
Jim Fitzpatrick | 527 c692 (Link to this contribution) In the debate yesterday evening and earlier today, there were many references from Opposition Member...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c692 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes some valid points. I know that he defends his constituency and the whole of the...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c694 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that valid point. I know that he is committed to bringing...
Jim Fitzpatrick | 527 c694 (Link to this contribution) When I won the seat of Poplar and Canning Town in 1997, the level of unemployment there was almost 1...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c693-4 (Link to this contribution) I still think of my hon. Friend as the Member for Canning Town; it is a habit that is hard to break....
Mike Freer | 527 c695 (Link to this contribution) Just a quick question: if the higher corporation tax and the capital allowances were so valuable, wh...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c695 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know that there are many challenges across the board, and manufacturing is a...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c697-8 (Link to this contribution) I could speculate on those points for my hon. Friend, but the Minister might be in a better position...
John McDonnell | 527 c697 (Link to this contribution) There is anxiety about the lack of assessment; it was undertaken so perfunctorily by the OBR because...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c698 (Link to this contribution) One of my concerns is that as we try desperately to rebalance the economy, we need to invest in some...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c696 (Link to this contribution) To be honest, I do not know. I was not a Treasury Minister in the last Labour Government. I spent my...
Nigel Mills | 527 c695 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is making an interesting case. Would he care to comment on whether any work...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c696-7 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. We are dealing specifically with clause 10, but it overlaps, as will be discussed further, w...
Andrew Love | 527 c696 (Link to this contribution) Is not the key point here the Minister's inability to give us hard figures on the improvement in gro...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c698-700 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point, as it is exactly those companies that require capital investment...
Nigel Mills | 527 c700-1 (Link to this contribution) It is with a small amount of pleasure that I rise to speak about tax issues, having spent 13 years a...
Andrew Love | 527 c701 (Link to this contribution) In recent years there has been a move in all western countries to reduce the headline rate of corpor...
Nigel Mills | 527 c701-2 (Link to this contribution) If we want a competitive corporate tax system, the tax rate is key. However, we probably need to exa...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c705 (Link to this contribution) Is it not worse than that? Many of the small manufacturing industries in my constituency have been d...
John McDonnell | 527 c704-5 (Link to this contribution) Strangely enough, given that I represent Hayes and Harlington, an urban area, I do not have an awful...
Jim Fitzpatrick | 527 c704 (Link to this contribution) One of the biggest elements of British manufacturing is the food industry. When I was a Minister of ...
John McDonnell | 527 c703-4 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend said earlier, all these clauses are linked and it is difficult to disaggrega...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c703 (Link to this contribution) May I assure my hon. Friend that we will return to those clauses in some detail?
John McDonnell | 527 c702-3 (Link to this contribution) I have a fair amount of sympathy with the hon. Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills), because if he ...
Andrew Love | 527 c706-7 (Link to this contribution) I echo the final comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) abo...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c707 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a good start to his speech by setting out the background. Not long ago, whe...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c705 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that one key factor is the lack of a focus on outcomes in the considerati...
John McDonnell | 527 c705-6 (Link to this contribution) Let me put it this way, as mildly as I possibly can: we hardly have a description of evidence-based ...
John McDonnell | 527 c705 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly the point that my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn made and that I wish to rei...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c731 (Link to this contribution) Order. The shadow Minister is talking about the schedule, which, as he knows, will be discussed in t...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c730-1 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. The funding of these measures needs to fit within the wider context, as set out perfectl...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c731 (Link to this contribution) As I mentioned in my speech—it is further confirmed by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Eng...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c730 (Link to this contribution) I will do so, Mr Evans, and I take your point precisely.
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c730 (Link to this contribution) We are not opposing the 11 words per se. [Interruption.] We are not going to vote on them, to my kno...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c729-30 (Link to this contribution) I entirely understand what my hon. Friend has said. There is a real inconsistency in the Government'...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c730 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is much too wide of the mark again. If he cares to look at page 21 of the ...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c729 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to say that all three of my children went to St Anne's primary school in Denton, where my...
Lord Cryer | 527 c729 (Link to this contribution) What concerns me about the changes is their incoherent nature. It appears that there have been knee-...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c728-9 (Link to this contribution) It was not my intention to speak in the clause 35 stand part debate. Having listened to my right hon...
Diane Abbott | 527 c729 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend care to share with the Committee the name of the primary school?
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c735 (Link to this contribution) Order. This is turning into a general debate on child poverty and that is not what clause 35 is abou...
Diane Abbott | 527 c735 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the failure to grasp the opportunity to redistribute income in favour...
Kate Green | 527 c734 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to speak in this stand part debate. I, too, want to express concerns about the proposal...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c734 (Link to this contribution) Did my hon. Friend attend Prime Minister's questions, given that she said that ““redistribute”” was ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c734 (Link to this contribution) Order. I listened to the Prime Minister at PMQs, and I did not hear him refer once to clause 35. Thi...
Kate Green | 527 c734-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Evans. I am mindful of the provisions in clause 35, which is specifically about ta...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c731 (Link to this contribution) Having heard your ruling, Mr Evans, I would not wish to stray on to the issue of the schedule. Suffi...
Diane Abbott | 527 c731-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to have the opportunity to say why clause 35 should not stand part of the Bill. As my ...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c733 (Link to this contribution) Not only were the Labour proposals brought forward in a different context, but the Labour Government...
Diane Abbott | 527 c733-4 (Link to this contribution) That is an important intervention. This is a Government who know the price of everything and the val...
Grahame Morris | 527 c727 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I will try to bring my remarks back to the clause. I am fully aware that the amendment that wa...
Grahame Morris | 527 c726-7 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Evans. I shall try to ensure that we focus on the clause. Let me quote some figures f...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c727 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is now going much wider than clause 35. Does he wish to resume?
Grahame Morris | 527 c724 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head: there is a fundamental point of principle here. I suspe...
Lord Cryer | 527 c725 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree—this is in line with the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for C...
Grahame Morris | 527 c725-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend: that is a good point well made. There are a number of levels where ...
Grahame Morris | 527 c725 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that point. Others have made it, and I have tried to echo its sentiments. The Gove...
Julie Hilling | 527 c725 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend has come across people in his constituency, as I have in mine, who a...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c728 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that the original proposals of the previous Labour Government to increase...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c728 (Link to this contribution) I now have to announce the result of the deferred Division on the Budget report and the UK's converg...
Grahame Morris | 527 c727 (Link to this contribution) I will happily give way to my hon. Friend.
Diane Abbott | 527 c727 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that all Labour Members have read the clause and that it is precisely beca...
Grahame Morris | 527 c727 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. My hon. Friend makes a reasonable point. All that we are trying...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c727 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious of your strictures, Mr Evans, and I am in no way challenging the Chair, but I underst...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c728 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for his advice, which I am not going to take. We are talking very narrowly a...
Grahame Morris | 527 c728 (Link to this contribution) I am sure you will be pleased to hear, Mr Evans, that I shall conclude my remarks in a few moments.
Lord Cryer | 527 c722 (Link to this contribution) We know that whenever means-testing is put in place, there is a cost because of the bureaucracy that...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c722 (Link to this contribution) There is, and my hon. Friend will know that we have been very clear that the Government's wider prop...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c723 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes his case on clause 35 and says that the previous Labour Government consid...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c722-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. That is another issue that we wish to explore not just t...
Grahame Morris | 527 c722 (Link to this contribution) Is there not also an issue to consider about clause 35 breaking the principle of universality—the id...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c724 (Link to this contribution) Rather than a redirection of money, is this not simply camouflage for a straightforward cut? It is a...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c723 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am delighted that Members mention clause 35 from time to time, but it is really quite speci...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c723 (Link to this contribution) If I may, Mr Evans, I shall try to touch briefly on the wider policies to which my hon. Friend refer...
Grahame Morris | 527 c723-4 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) has already indicated, clause 35 introduces...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c723 (Link to this contribution) We have known each other since our elections to the House on 9 April 1992, Mr Evans, and as ever, I ...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c742 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the encouraging things that took place under the previous Gove...
Kate Green | 527 c741-2 (Link to this contribution) That is right. There is plenty of evidence that parents, especially women, will always make financia...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c740 (Link to this contribution) Order. Interventions must, by definition, be short. That was wide of the mark and does not need a re...
Grahame Morris | 527 c740 (Link to this contribution) I wonder about the specific impact of clause 35 on bankruptcy and personal insolvency, given the los...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c741 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. Is not the underlying impact of clause 35 that the Gove...
Kate Green | 527 c740-1 (Link to this contribution) We are aware of the difficulty in planning the paying for child care. Parents are often required to ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c742 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady is aware that Mr Evans has drawn her attention to the narrow nature of the clau...
Kate Green | 527 c742-3 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Dr McCrea. I was simply going to make the point that quality is partly about diversity an...
David Gauke | 527 c743-4 (Link to this contribution) Clause 35 makes changes to ensure that all recipients of employer-supported child care who joined sc...
Kate Green | 527 c742 (Link to this contribution) We are worried about whether the quality of child care will be maintained as less funding becomes av...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c744 (Link to this contribution) I want to make it clear to the Minister that I have said from the Dispatch Box that this measure had...
David Gauke | 527 c744 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to seeing how Hansard transcribes, ““this close””. I should point out, however, that ...
Diane Abbott | 527 c744 (Link to this contribution) For the record, I am the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, not for Shoreditch, and ...
David Gauke | 527 c744 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way first to the hon. Lady.
David Gauke | 527 c745 (Link to this contribution) In part, the hon. Gentleman is trying to draw me into the debate on child benefit, but I have no int...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c746 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we will be drawing to a conclusion shortly, but I want first to place on record my th...
David Gauke | 527 c744-5 (Link to this contribution) Because of the crisis in the public finances that we inherited, we have taken a range of measures to...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c745 (Link to this contribution) What is the economic rationale or moral principle underlying the distinction the Government are stil...
David Gauke | 527 c744 (Link to this contribution) That is very clear, and I am grateful for that intervention. Clause 35 will result in a saving to th...
Kate Green | 527 c744 (Link to this contribution) It is not an additional spending commitment; it is a commitment to moving spending from one group of...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c736 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that a big opportunity is missed to extend more widely the provision of ch...
Kate Green | 527 c735-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg your pardon. This was not intended to be a general discourse on child poverty. There was a spe...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c736 (Link to this contribution) Order. Just to inform the House, I am not going to allow a general debate, either, about what the mo...
Kate Green | 527 c736 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, and that does not make good fiscal sense. It cannot be sensible for public money to be inves...
Diane Abbott | 527 c737 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend touches on the fact that this is a debate about clause 35 of the Finance Bill, but it...
Kate Green | 527 c736-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. What is important about the legislation behind clause 35 is that it retained all par...
Kate Green | 527 c737 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend leads us into really important territory: the issue of universal provision. If we are...
Kate Green | 527 c737 (Link to this contribution) Not slightly—straying from the ambit of clause 35. My hon. Friend's point is correct: fundamentally...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c737 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is adding great expertise to the debate with her background in this area of policy. A...
Diane Abbott | 527 c738 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great interest to what my hon. Friend has said about the effect of clause 35 on...
Kate Green | 527 c738 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. I should like to talk about what this provision will mean in terms of the number of ch...
Kate Green | 527 c738 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Evans. I was mindful of your earlier injunction not to stray into a discussion of ...
Kate Green | 527 c739 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right. Family budgets are under pressure, including the family budgets of hi...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c739 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the context in which the Labour Government decided to restrict the ta...
Kate Green | 527 c738 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. We are beginning to say that child care is only for some children, not for ...
Geoffrey Robinson | 527 c739-40 (Link to this contribution) Listening to my hon. Friend, it is clear that she has an in-depth knowledge of this sector and of ho...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c739 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of any consultation that has taken place since the previous Government's pro...
Kate Green | 527 c739 (Link to this contribution) Of course, my right hon. Friend proposed a full review of the overall impact of the Government's pro...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c719 (Link to this contribution) Actually, Ministers answer the questions and the Opposition ask them. I have been clear with the Exc...
Andrew Gwynne | 527 c694-5 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right to say that we shall need a regular assessment, because the regional e...
Kate Green | 527 c735 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. She highlights another of the Government's key strategic objectives, an obj...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c726 (Link to this contribution) Order. This is becoming more of a general debate about the welfare state, which is clearly not what ...
Grahame Morris | 527 c728 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my right hon. Friend has taken the opportunity to place that excellent point on the r...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 527 c737-8 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am not going to allow any further discussion as to what the money could have been spent on....
Kate Green | 527 c740 (Link to this contribution) I am confused by the Government's direction of travel, specifically on the clause and on its interac...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 527 c695 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes my case for me very powerfully. I am simply saying to the Committee that these ...
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