UK Parliament / Open data

Public Services (Social Enterprise and Social Value) Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 19 November 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Chris White. The answering member was Nick Hurd.
Public Services (Social Enterprise and Social Value) Bill. Motion to sit in private negatived on question. Second reading debate agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Public Bill Committee.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
518 c1170-228 
Session
2010-12
Department
Cabinet Office
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Private members' bills proceedings
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Public Services (Social Enterprise and Social Value) Bill. Explanatory notes also published (Bill 6-EN). Bill title changed to Public Services (Social Value) Bill 2010-12 (19 October 2011).
Wednesday, 30 June 2010
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1221, (corrigendum) 519 c146;518 c1221 (Link to this contribution) We must not let the example of one or two less successful projects restrict the opportunity for the ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 518 c1170 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Show all contributions (139)
Chris White | 518 c1170-4 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. I am proud to be able to stand here this mo...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1174 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will be aware, as a number of us are, of the concerns of the Federation of Small Busi...
Chris White | 518 c1174 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend brings up the FSB, which wrote to us only this week to state that it s...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1174 (Link to this contribution) May I assure my hon. Friend that only this morning I was talking to the deputy policy director of th...
Chris White | 518 c1174-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the deputy policy director has had the opportunity to discuss the Bill with th...
Steve Baker | 518 c1175-6 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend draws a distinction between values and price and that he recognises th...
Chris White | 518 c1176 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that. He has talked about two separate issues: the values of individuals ...
Speaker | 518 c1170 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman cannot raise that at this point. It should have come before, and it did not. What...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 518 c1170 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House sit in private. Question put forthwit...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1224 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. There are so many examples. The local community may be dependent on the local po...
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1224 (Link to this contribution) We must also not differentiate between a business being local and being big. It would be dangerous i...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1225 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. As a result of where some hon. Members are sitting, it may sometim...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1225-6 (Link to this contribution) One matter that has not been drawn out in this debate—my hon. Friend is an expert on this and may wi...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1226-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. Anyone who mentions the European Union in the House immediately a...
Chris White | 518 c1227-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope). He suggested that I might rest on my ...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1224 (Link to this contribution) Just to clarify, my hon. Friend is narrowing his remarks down to the local authorities, but clause 3...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1224-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that correction and I am sorry that I was concentrating just on ...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1225 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend think that the new version of the Bill should cover the qualifications to do wit...
Speaker | 518 c1225 (Link to this contribution) Order. When Members make interventions, could they please face the Chair because it is sometimes dif...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1222 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and I have shared his experience of Tesco at one of the two...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1223 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, that is ridiculous. The previous Government were too obsessed with the fact ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 518 c1223-4 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that what he suggests is a good way of moving towards the localism agenda?...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1223 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is encouraging me to trouble the House with more examples. In that case, I will choos...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1223 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and we all have examples from our constituencies of businesses t...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1222-3 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, and that is very much the theme behind the submission from the Federation of Small Busin...
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1223 (Link to this contribution) Staying in business may be the immediate aim of a micro-business, but there is often a greater end t...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1224 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Given time, I am sure that he would develop his argument in rela...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1222 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who made a powerful speech on the same theme. People going into pu...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1220 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that that will be greeted with great enthusiasm by small businesses throughout the country...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1220 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my hon. Friend will be reassured if I draw to his attention the Cabinet Office announcement ...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1220 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for the compliments he paid me earlier—I took them as compliments...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1219-20 (Link to this contribution) I should be happy to do that. I have written to all Members of Parliament offering them the opportun...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1221 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. He is right to emphasise the riskier approach, because sometimes ...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1221 (Link to this contribution) Often, the problem for procurement officials is that the lowest-risk option for them is to choose a ...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1221 (Link to this contribution) One of the objectives we hope to achieve through the Bill will result from its focus on local social...
Steve Baker | 518 c1209 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jon Trickett | 518 c1209 (Link to this contribution) I am about to wind up, although some might say that I have wound the hon. Gentleman up enough. Cent...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1207 (Link to this contribution) Of course it does, and I take the point, but the truth is that the Conservative party—the so-called ...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1207 (Link to this contribution) Let me just clarify something. In the example that I gave, I had hoped to show that outsourcing to t...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1207 (Link to this contribution) Surely the logic of what the hon. Gentleman has just said is that he should vote against the Bill, t...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1208 (Link to this contribution) Will the Parliamentary Secretary deny that the Cabinet Office helped to draft the Bill? He will not....
Nick Hurd | 518 c1208 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making several assumptions about the Government's position that may be proved ...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1208-9 (Link to this contribution) It is for the Minister and the Government to go first and describe their conception of the big socie...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1208 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his indulgence. On the question of definitions, the Leader of Her Maj...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1214 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will have heard me refer to the innovative construction company, B4Box, which has worke...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1210-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the Opposition were confused in any way: I think that they knew exactly what the...
Nadhim Zahawi | 518 c1210 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes precisely the point about which the shadow Minister was confused. The procureme...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1209-10 (Link to this contribution) It is a little early in my speech to give way. Once the right hon. Lady had recovered sufficiently,...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1212-4 (Link to this contribution) I will come to clause 1, and I think that my remarks will give my hon. Friend some reassurance. We ...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1212 (Link to this contribution) Clause 1 calls on the Secretary of State to prepare a national social enterprise strategy. We do not...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1211-2 (Link to this contribution) I hear the right hon. Lady's concern. She makes a valid point, and she used a very important word—““...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1211 (Link to this contribution) I have expressed to several hon. Members my concern about the process of transferring assets, possib...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1209 (Link to this contribution) The House has rightly expressed its admiration for my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leaming...
Steve Baker | 518 c1218 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Minister on his wisdom in attaching this condition to the Bill—I find it hugely r...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1216-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a requirement to consider, where ““relevant”” and ““proportionate””, and it does not compromis...
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1219 (Link to this contribution) May I invite the Minister to meet representatives of the Eden Project and the Message Trust? I belie...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1218 (Link to this contribution) I am rarely accused of wisdom, so this is a pleasant moment that I shall relish. The definitions of...
Steve Baker | 518 c1215-6 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister join me in celebrating the brilliance of some of our public sector employees, and ...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1214-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend was good enough to introduce diverse representation from Ipswich, and the anger about...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1216 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend moves from clause 3, will he explain why it is mandatory on local authorities?...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1216 (Link to this contribution) I certainly will, and it is important to do so. This is largely about freeing people who work in the...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1214 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has provided some good examples of what he called intelligent commissioning, and I prov...
Nick Hurd | 518 c1214 (Link to this contribution) I would be delighted to arrange that meeting. Aileen McDonald sounds wonderfully inspiring, and if s...
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1195-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, as that is exactly what I am saying. I think that we w...
Steve Baker | 518 c1197-8 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) on the way in whic...
Harriett Baldwin | 518 c1198-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a pity that my hon. Friend was not present when I made some comments about his earlier interve...
Steve Baker | 518 c1199 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me the opportunity to say this. Given that I sit in this ...
Steve Baker | 518 c1195 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that all enterprise is necessarily social because it seeks to create value...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1201 (Link to this contribution) I agree that there are local businesses that fulfil a social good, but we do not want people just to...
Steve Baker | 518 c1199-200 (Link to this contribution) I fully agree with my hon. Friend's point. In conclusion, my argument is as follows. If we are to h...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1199 (Link to this contribution) While I would demur a little from every point my hon. Friend has made, may I draw attention to the k...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1201 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making some very good points. However, does he accept that one consequence of the ...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1200-1 (Link to this contribution) Specifically in the context of the current debate, I will definitely not be repeating ““lower taxes”...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1189 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it is equally, if not more important that small for-profit businesses...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1189-90 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. One of the consequences of the Bill would be that local and...
Therese Coffey | 518 c1189 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the intervention by the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears), o...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1189 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I agree that we want the opportunity to discuss these issues ...
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1195 (Link to this contribution) I believe that ““community”” comprises many different factors, one of which is having flourishing bu...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1195 (Link to this contribution) Given that the purpose is not to subsidise for-profit enterprises that are operating at the margins,...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1192-4 (Link to this contribution) I think that the right hon. Lady will find that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions heartil...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1192 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but my point is important. If he is so concerned, as I a...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1204 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to take interventions straight away, but I may in due course. It has frequently been...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1204 (Link to this contribution) I see that at least one hon. Gentleman remembers that as well as I do, and with approval by the look...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1204 (Link to this contribution) To clarify my point, my concern was that many procurement officials are compelled in only one direct...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1205 (Link to this contribution) We on this side of the Chamber feel perfectly comfortable in our own skin in advocating precisely su...
Steve Baker | 518 c1205 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman uses the word ““ideological”” to accuse me of having thought about how society...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1206 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is describing every pet project that Labour came up with in its 13 years in power...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1205-6 (Link to this contribution) I, too, have a very strong ideological vision, and in no way should the hon. Gentleman apologise for...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1206-7 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry I gave way to the hon. Gentleman, because he clearly has not listened to much of what I h...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1201 (Link to this contribution) I certainly think we should allow charitable enterprises to tender for contracts and deliver service...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1202 (Link to this contribution) I will be with you in a second. [Laughter.] It would be unusual to see such a business grow to the e...
Daniel Byles | 518 c1201 (Link to this contribution) I am not entirely sure that I agree with my hon. Friend that there is such a clear distinction betwe...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1201-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not suggest for a second that no private for-profit businesses have a social objective—a lot of...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1203-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to hear such an interesting and, at times, erudite debate. The Conservative party u...
Sam Gyimah | 518 c1202 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his patience and congratulate him on advertising a strategy that I wholehea...
John Hayes | 518 c1202 (Link to this contribution) I am immensely grateful to my hon. Friend. I did not want to interrupt his flow. My hon. Friend wil...
Andrew Bridgen | 518 c1176 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that whatever the state decides to take responsibility for and control of,...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Speaker. I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker). ...
Steve Baker | 518 c1179 (Link to this contribution) Listening to the right hon. Lady's remarks, I am reminded of a book on social value that was written...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1179 (Link to this contribution) I have already said that there are many different views and that it is a developing subject. If the ...
Steve Baker | 518 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) Of course, we all value society. The right hon. Lady may know of the Cobden society. We gleefully re...
Speaker | 518 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I gently say to the hon. Gentleman that interventions, even when they constitute a kind o...
Chris White | 518 c1176-7 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Bill will give us the opportunity to discuss these issues in a wider forum. We have ...
Chris White | 518 c1177-8 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make some progress. I recognise that we face difficult challenges, but the proposal...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) on two counts: on being succ...
Harriett Baldwin | 518 c1185 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that informative intervention. I, too, represent a constituency that has ...
Harriett Baldwin | 518 c1185-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I do not want to rule out the possibility that charities may want to use loan finance from t...
Daniel Byles | 518 c1185 (Link to this contribution) What I find most interesting about my hon. Friend's speech is that she is making the clear point tha...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1186-7 (Link to this contribution) It is my great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwi...
Steve Baker | 518 c1187 (Link to this contribution) I associate myself closely with my hon. Friend's comments, but I remain confused about why we need t...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution) I will try to address my hon. Friend's point, which I heard earlier and think is a good one, but let...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1188 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that there are many assets that could be transferred to social enterprises. ...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1188 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady makes a good point, although I would not be quite so averse to assets held in th...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1188 (Link to this contribution) Neither am I hostile to entrepreneurial companies, which make a tremendous contribution to our econo...
Richard Fuller | 518 c1189 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady is much more familiar with, and expert in, this area than me, but there is a dif...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I am rarely accused of being dreary. I am usually accused of the opposite. If the hon. Gentleman wil...
Steve Baker | 518 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very brief. The right hon. Lady paints a dreary picture of society as being entirely depe...
Jon Trickett | 518 c1180-1 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making a strong case and she does not need my help. Does not the Bill sugges...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1181-3 (Link to this contribution) I am beginning to feel quite protective of the Bill, but I do not want to create any further divisio...
Andrew Bridgen | 518 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I will bear in the mind the guidance on interventions that the Speaker has just given us. Will the r...
Hazel Blears | 518 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I would never try to make such a point. In our country, we live in a vibrant and much admired democr...
Harriett Baldwin | 518 c1184 (Link to this contribution) That is an extremely low rate, but in fact the annualised default rate has been just over 1%. The ca...
Nadhim Zahawi | 518 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) on introducing thi...
Harriett Baldwin | 518 c1183-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on this interesting private Member's Bill, and it is an h...
Therese Coffey | 518 c1184 (Link to this contribution) My guess is that it would be less than 1%.
Jon Trickett | 518 c1207 (Link to this contribution) I have said that the Bill raises interesting questions and deserves a Second Reading, enabling some ...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1190-2 (Link to this contribution) We have enjoyed an interesting debate so far, and one that has on several occasions skirted around t...
Christopher Chope | 518 c1221 (Link to this contribution) I do. One of the amendments to clause 2 that I would have suggested is that social enterprises shoul...
Fiona Bruce | 518 c1194-5 (Link to this contribution) It gives me great pleasure to support my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris Wh...
Ben Gummer | 518 c1201 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is drawing two distinctions. One of them is between local and national, and the other...
Rebecca Harris | 518 c1202-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) for producing this excell...
Subjects
Contracts
Charities
Employment
Finance
Local government
Private sector
Procurement
Loans
Public service
Rehabilitation
Voluntary organisations
Small businesses
Social enterprises
Legislation
Public Services (Social Value) Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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