UK Parliament / Open data

Finance Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 8 July 2009, in the House of Commons.
Finance Bill. Report stage second day. Concluded. Third reading debate. Agreed to on question and Bill passed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
495 c992-1075 
Session
2008-09
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Third reading and Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Finance Bill. As amended in the Committee (of the Whole House) and in Public Bill Committee. In two volumes.
Thursday, 25 June 2009
Bills
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Finance Bill; government response to the Committee's sixteenth report of session 2008-09, Coroners and Justice Bill (certified inquests). Human Rights Committee twentieth report with formal minutes and evidence.
Tuesday, 7 July 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
David Gauke | 495 c1061 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 17, in page 289, line 23, at end insert—
David Heath | 495 c1060-1 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for South-West Hertfordshire (Mr. Gauke) on having won two amendments...

Show all contributions (166)
Speaker | 495 c1062 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Mark Hoban | 495 c1048 (Link to this contribution) I am not entirely convinced by the argument about the delays that would be caused by agreeing a stat...
David Heath | 495 c1048 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 3, page 46, line 10, at end insert—
Speaker | 495 c1048 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
David Heath | 495 c1049-52 (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to discuss the other amendments in the group, I simply wish to talk about amendment ...
David Gauke | 495 c1052-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath), who has raised a numb...
Colin Breed | 495 c1055-7 (Link to this contribution) I just wish to make a few comments on the charter and the senior accounting officer. These wide-rang...
Stephen Timms | 495 c1057-60 (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments relate to the tax administration elements of the Bill. The formation of HMR...
Stephen Timms | 495 c1067-9 (Link to this contribution) In the Budget, we announced a restriction of higher rate tax relief for the pension contributions of...
Speaker | 495 c1066 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Stephen Timms | 495 c1071-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Let me begin by thanking all hon. Members ...
Mark Hoban | 495 c1069-70 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 35 has caused much concern to many people, including pension providers and the self-employe...
Ian Pearson | 495 c1064-6 (Link to this contribution) We believe that Government amendment 47 will be effective, and I shall explain why in a moment. As t...
David Gauke | 495 c1062-4 (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments relates to real estate investment trusts, or REITs, which were introduced w...
Stephen Timms | 495 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 48, page 291, line 28, at end insert '(but subject to paragraph 16A).'.
David Gauke | 495 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his comments about continuing to look at the stock dividend issue....
Mark Hoban | 495 c1072-4 (Link to this contribution) I wish that I could talk about the Bill with the same degree of conviction as the Financial Secretar...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1074 (Link to this contribution) The Finance Bill is an inevitably enormous piece of legislation that is rightly subjected to many mo...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1074-5 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister said, the Bill extends the temporary VAT cut. He suggested that there was evidence t...
Neil Gerrard | 495 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief as I do not want to repeat what has already been said. Like many hon. Members, I m...
Sarah Teather | 495 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree, and I tabled an early-day motion that incorporated those factors. The hon. Gentl...
Diane Abbott | 495 c1006 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may think is an anomalous system, but a Jamaican nurse who has saved for two year...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I do not want the hon. Lady to misrepresent my position, because I am an ally of hers and it would b...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) I think I was making myself perfectly clear, but the hon. Gentleman might have chosen not to listen ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1005 (Link to this contribution) That is a hazard, but I do not want to go so far as to say that any taxes on aviation will threaten ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1005 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is correct in his assertions about short-haul flights. Does he agree that this le...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1005 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Short-haul flights definitely do more dam...
Peter Bone | 495 c1005 (Link to this contribution) On the environmental issue, there is a further perverse effect. Most environmental damage is done on...
Peter Bone | 495 c1009 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Gerrard). He made a valid and ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1010 (Link to this contribution) This may support the hon. Gentleman's argument. Surely an environmental tax should have the desired ...
Peter Bone | 495 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Minister will answer that question. Let me turn to a more local issue. Many of my c...
Neil Gerrard | 495 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman and agree that that is the direction we should be looking towards, irresp...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1008 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a sensible and cogent argument. Banding of any form will produce proble...
Neil Gerrard | 495 c1008-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend and agree that we should pursue this line for the future; it is ultimately wh...
David Leslie Taylor | 495 c1008 (Link to this contribution) The roots of our inability to tax fuel probably stretch back as far as the inter-war Chicago convent...
Neil Gerrard | 495 c1007 (Link to this contribution) Almost inevitably, the information is there already.
Neil Gerrard | 495 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I understand that point. If a system were based on distance travelled, there would be alternative wa...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman provides me with an opportunity to clarify my earlier point. I agree with him tha...
Peter Bone | 495 c993 (Link to this contribution) If a per-passenger duty were imposed on cars, it would be paid four times if four people using a car...
Greg Hands | 495 c992 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, and she is absolutely right. I have had considerable co...
Greg Hands | 495 c993 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. That is why our amendment 1, a much more logical and environmentally friend...
Sarah Teather | 495 c992 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that those arbitrary zones have created a number of unfair anomalies? ...
Greg Hands | 495 c992 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 11, line 32, at end insert—
Greg Hands | 495 c996 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a very fair point. That is why many of those routes are called VFR routes, stand...
Sarah Teather | 495 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) People who travel to India and the Caribbean often do so because they have family living abroad—they...
Greg Hands | 495 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) There has been no conversion at all. That was the view of a transport policy group, but for as long ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c994 (Link to this contribution) I hope that this intervention is factually accurate. I have been told that in 2006—which is, after a...
Greg Hands | 495 c996-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes precisely my point, perhaps somewhat more succinctly than I am making it. By not...
Diane Abbott | 495 c996 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if so-called green taxes are to have public acceptability, they m...
Graham Stringer | 495 c993 (Link to this contribution) The studies carried out by Manchester airport and other parts of the industry show that it would be ...
Greg Hands | 495 c993-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I am perfectly willing to look at any papers that ...
Graham Stringer | 495 c993 (Link to this contribution) I understand the environmental arguments that the hon. Gentleman is putting forward. However, can he...
Greg Hands | 495 c993 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. He raises two very reasonable questions, which the...
Diane Abbott | 495 c1001 (Link to this contribution) We have to look at the incomes that people are earning. We are largely talking about people who are ...
Sarah Teather | 495 c1001 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is giving a very good speech and I absolutely agree with the points that she is making...
Diane Abbott | 495 c1001-2 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. As someone who flies to Jamaica most years, I can tell Ministers that travel agents will...
Peter Bone | 495 c1001 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making a powerful speech. Is not one of the unintended consequences of the measure ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1002-4 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak to amendment 1 and all the issues that are thrown up...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c998 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that if one starts at Greenwich—very close to where we are today—the far extreme ...
Greg Hands | 495 c998-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Interestingly, both those territories are in part 2, but...
Diane Abbott | 495 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution) I want to speak specifically about the effects of the ill-thought-out proposal for air passenger dut...
Andy Slaughter | 495 c1001 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a good point, which has reached the nub of the issue. The Opposition have o...
Diane Abbott | 495 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. The system that the Government propose does not bear examination. I repeat that th...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I thank all hon. Members who have contributed to the debate. As has been mentioned, in 2008 the Gov...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I will in two seconds; I want to deal with a point that my hon. Friend made. We have always said tha...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend will be patient, I shall come to that in a moment.
Diane Abbott | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend said that the Government rejected the idea of a per-plane tax. We know, because it is...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I think that I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I shall explain later the way in...
Lord Deben | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that the Government had always recognised that the tax should be both environmenta...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) Somewhere in my papers, I have the figure for the reduction in carbon that we expect as a result of ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1011 (Link to this contribution) The Minister talks about getting the balance right. By what percentage does she hope to reduce passe...
Greg Hands | 495 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Can we get it absolutely clear that there are only two reasons for rejecting the per-plane tax in th...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her answer a few moments ago, but I seek a little clarification. ...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1012 (Link to this contribution) They are certainly not the only two reasons. Another important reason was the point that I made abou...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I acknowledge that long-haul flights cause more emissions than short-haul flights. My point was that...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I do not have that information to hand, but I am sure I will be able to get it to the right hon. Gen...
John Redwood | 495 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us which of the many tax proposals that the Government examined produced the b...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1012 (Link to this contribution) It is 0.6 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2011-12. My hon. Friends the Members for Hackney, Nor...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I am a frequent air traveller. Unfortunately, I sometimes take between four and six flights a week. ...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1013-4 (Link to this contribution) Notwithstanding that, there is the gap in the middle at the hub point, because the protection is giv...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1013 (Link to this contribution) Surely the second airline would offer the same contract for the second flight. The level of protecti...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. A geographical banding structure balances the aim...
Hywel Williams | 495 c1021 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, the club has received substantial investment recently. The companies have a good...
Lord Deben | 495 c1019 (Link to this contribution) Might it be that the Government are being snobbish? Somehow they think that there is something infra...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1019 (Link to this contribution) I visited Mecca bingo in Taunton on Friday and met many people who, in the past, may have considered...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1019 (Link to this contribution) I was not aware of those figures, but they are very interesting. The public finances are in such a p...
Lord Foster of Bath | 495 c1019 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to reflect on the debate that we had on 13 May. During that time we all ...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1019-20 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. I know that the hon. Gentleman went over that point in some detail during ...
Mike Weir | 495 c1020 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a very powerful case. In Montrose, the local Gala club has closed down and ...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1018-9 (Link to this contribution) In an attempt to build an all-party consensus on my amendment, I might not follow the hon. Gentleman...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I understand the black-hole argument perfectly clearly, but it does not apply here. The tribunals an...
Greg Hands | 495 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. I think that he is referring to the assertions that...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1021-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not have forecasts, but I suspect that the industry will be anxious that its pressure on the Go...
Greg Hands | 495 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He is being quite accurate, but he is leaving out an impo...
Mike Weir | 495 c1023 (Link to this contribution) I strongly agree with the hon. Gentleman. I have experienced the same thing in my constituency, in M...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1022 (Link to this contribution) What I am trying to do is prevent members of the Conservative Front Bench from wriggling out of thei...
Eric Illsley | 495 c1022-3 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Stewart Hosie). As he points out...
John Redwood | 495 c1021 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making some interesting comments. Does he have any forecasts of how many clubs...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1021 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. We see the large clubs, the well-run clubs and the millions of pounds that...
Andy Slaughter | 495 c1015 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes some good negative points about why the Opposition proposals may not work or wh...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1016 (Link to this contribution) I was about to come to that. I have asked my officials to consider the matter further. Although my h...
Diane Abbott | 495 c1016 (Link to this contribution) One of the arguments that the Minister made against doing anything about the zones was that to do so...
Diane Abbott | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) On the incentive to use an interconnecting flight rather than a direct one, people going to the Cari...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I take my hon. Friend's point, but the point that I am trying to make is that such flights will not ...
Lord Deben | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain why it is sensible to have a higher tax on a flight to the Caribbean, give...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1015 (Link to this contribution) I disagree. I thought that we had a consensus that long-distance flights were more environmentally d...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) The measures do not apply within the UK. [Interruption.] What I am saying is in the context of passe...
Peter Bone | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister is not quite aware of the practice. Travelling non-stop—direct—is more exp...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly re-examine that, but my understanding is that the situation for two unconnected fli...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1018 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted once again to make the case for bingo and speak out against the Government's damaging...
Peter Bone | 495 c1018 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member makes an important point, but does he detect a trend in this Finance Bill? The Gover...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1017 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 4, page 12, line 15, leave out subsection (2).
Speaker | 495 c1017-8 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 22, page 12, line 16, leave out ...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1017 (Link to this contribution) We have examined many ways forward along those lines, but so far we have come up with negative reaso...
Greg Hands | 495 c1017 (Link to this contribution) This has been a wide-ranging and extremely helpful debate on amendment 1, and we have heard from a s...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1016 (Link to this contribution) My point is that we are trying to make our reformed APD system give a better environmental signal an...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1016 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Lady finishes her speech, will she engage with my entirely constructive proposal, wh...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1016 (Link to this contribution) I certainly take on board my hon. Friend's point but, as I said, we must recognise that we want the ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 495 c1016 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is saying that this is a straightforward revenue-raising tax, but it is hoped that it ...
Alan Reid | 495 c1035 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Bingo takes place in a controlled environment, and the losses that people c...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) I understand that it is. Moreover, there are no controls in the case of online bingo. Although it ma...
David Heath | 495 c1036 (Link to this contribution) Is that not what makes the Government's decision to tax bingo more than other forms of gambling so o...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1035 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. I think it is safe to say that online bingo, for example, is more likely to be und...
Greg Hands | 495 c1035 (Link to this contribution) Is not online bingo also likely to be much more addictive than the bingo hall version?
Peter Bone | 495 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Browne). As he made many of the po...
Lord Deben | 495 c1036 (Link to this contribution) Has not the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) given the clue to this? He says that the ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1036 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, and I should like to refer to the very subject of revenue. During yesterday's debate, we...
Bob Spink | 495 c1038 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a passionate and well-informed speech and I agree with everything he sa...
Peter Bone | 495 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not speak from the Front Bench—and probably never will—and my hon. Friend the Member for Hammer...
Lord Foster of Bath | 495 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) In many ways, this is an excellent continuation of the debate that we had on 13 May. Indeed, we have...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c1040-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank all those who have contributed to the debate, especially the hon. Member for Dundee, East (S...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1042 (Link to this contribution) We have had a good debate again. We should have these bingo debates more often. They seem to engende...
Mark Hoban | 495 c1045 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 31, in page 15, line 40, leave out from 'unless' to end of line 9 on page 16...
Speaker | 495 c1045 (Link to this contribution) Order. Will hon. Members not staying for this debate leave the Chamber quickly and quietly?
John Redwood | 495 c1046 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my hon. Friend will permit me to go back to RBS. Is he aware that although it would be good ...
Mark Hoban | 495 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) Clause 25 creates a legal framework to enable any institution that has taken part in the arrangement...
Ian Pearson | 495 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) Clause 25 ensures that an agreement reached between a company and the Treasury will be effective for...
Mark Hoban | 495 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend, who has a great deal of experience in the City, makes an important point that ...
Eric Illsley | 495 c1024-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I had not had that information, but she has m...
Peter Bone | 495 c1025 (Link to this contribution) The owners of my local bingo club in Rushden, Flutters, made a very powerful point: the club needs r...
Nia Griffith | 495 c1024 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend had representations from constituents who have looked at the figures for their lo...
Speaker | 495 c1029 (Link to this contribution) Order. Fascinating as those views might be, they have no place in the debate on this particular amen...
Lord Deben | 495 c1029 (Link to this contribution) I might ask the hon. Gentleman what his position on his party's proposals—
Adrian Bailey | 495 c1029 (Link to this contribution) May I just ask the right hon. Gentleman what his position is on his party's inheritance tax proposal...
Lord Deben | 495 c1027-9 (Link to this contribution) I can imagine the noble Lord in many circumstances, but I had not thought of the bingo club as one o...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1027 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that Lord Mandelson and other key figures in the Government d...
Lord Deben | 495 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) I should start by saying that I am not a supporter of gambling; I do not like it or approve of it an...
Eric Illsley | 495 c1025-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point, and I am sure that the situation throughout the indus...
Lord Deben | 495 c1029 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that I can be guided by you on that matter, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I wish I could not be. We...
Dari Taylor | 495 c1029-31 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Government to think again. The argument has been well presented three times in the Chamber...
Greg Hands | 495 c1031 (Link to this contribution) Remarkably, clause 20, on the taxation of bingo, has attracted more amendments than any other clause...
Mark Field | 495 c1031 (Link to this contribution) Although I do not necessarily share the anger about casinos expressed by my right hon. Friend the Me...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. The right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) told us...
Greg Hands | 495 c1034 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. The correct course of action would have been for...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1032 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman think of any other Government assessment where it is possible to be out on th...
Greg Hands | 495 c1031-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. We touched on that issue in the debate on clause 114, ...
Lord Deben | 495 c1034 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend help me on one point? It seems to me that we have to defend the revenue, which i...
Greg Hands | 495 c1032-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's intervention speaks for itself; he makes his point extremely well. The Governm...
Eric Illsley | 495 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. I am not sure that it is healthy for anybody to sit in front...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1019 (Link to this contribution) I am almost at a loss; the temptation is too great. It is a good thing that the hon. Member for Crew...
Andy Slaughter | 495 c1005 (Link to this contribution) I am confused, which sometimes happens when I listen to Lib Dem policy. Is the hon. Gentleman agreei...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c1020 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. The closure of the club in Montrose was a tragedy for the town and for the...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) Let me return to that theme in my concluding remarks, because that is an interesting observation. A...
Subjects
Aviation
Bingo
Air passenger duty
Internet
Powers
Prosecutions
Pensions
Tax allowances
Taxation
VAT
Revenue and Customs
Caribbean
Real estate investment trusts
Legislation
Finance Bill 2008-09
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