UK Parliament / Open data

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 19 May 2009, in the House of Commons.
Policing and Crime Bill. Programme motion (No. 2) on proceedings on Report and Third reading debated and agreed to on division (278 votes to 212). Report stage debate. New clause 1, discussed with new clauses 2, 3, 31 and 32, and amendments, debated and negatived on division (71 votes to 284). New clause 32 negatived on division (154 votes to 352). Amendments made. New clause 20 debated and negatived on question. New clause 22, discussed with new clauses 4, 25, 26, 37 and 38, debated and added to the Bill. New clause 4 negatived on division (64 votes to 286). New clause 25 negatived on division (201 votes to 285). Third reading debate. Agreed to on question and Bill passed. [Relevant documents: The Tenth Report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Legislative Scrutiny: Policing and Crime Bill, HC 395, and the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Legislative Scrutiny: Policing and Crime Bill (gangs injunctions), HC 441, and the Government’s reply.]
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
492 c1349-420, 1423-72 
Session
2008-09
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Third reading and Report stage
Procedure
Programme motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Policing and Crime Bill. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Thursday, 26 February 2009
Bills
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Policing and Crime Bill. Government response to the Human Rights Joint Select Committee's tenth and fifteenth reports of session 2008-09 (HL 68 and HL 81; HC 395 and HC 441).
Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Command papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Policing and Crime Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee tenth report with formal minutes and evidence.
Tuesday, 31 March 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Policing and Crime Bill (gangs injunctions). Human Rights Joint Select Committee fifteenth report with formal minutes.
Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Evan Harris | 492 c1427-8 (Link to this contribution) "Ought to know" is a recklessness test, which basically means that if the court decides that it is r...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1426-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there has been no research on causation. But let me offer hi...

Show all contributions (161)
Speaker | 492 c1427 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I say to the hon. Lady, and the House generally, that consideration of this group finishe...
Evan Harris | 492 c1427 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps it will be best if I do not take any more interventions. I have the utmost respect for the ...
Evan Harris | 492 c1427 (Link to this contribution) I have nearly come to the end of my speech, but I shall give way twice before concluding.
Keith Vaz | 492 c1427 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to accept "I have nearly come to the end of my speech."
Philip Davies | 492 c1427 (Link to this contribution) The new clause specifically states that a person commits an offence when they know or "ought to know...
Evan Harris | 492 c1426 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady's comments would be evidence for the Government's proposals if a causative association...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1426 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman describes the existing situation, whereby men who rape prostituted women too ofte...
Evan Harris | 492 c1426 (Link to this contribution) Of course I shall give way to the hon. Lady, who has strong views and has always been willing to hav...
John McDonnell | 492 c1419 (Link to this contribution) Evidence has been collected from children who have been prosecuted and had to live their lives with ...
Evan Harris | 492 c1419 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman, whose contribution to this debate has been important. I ...
Evan Harris | 492 c1418-9 (Link to this contribution) For the Government to rely on the assertion that reversing the criminalisation of children who are v...
Evan Harris | 492 c1423-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall continue with the second half of my contribution, in which I shall specifically support new ...
Speaker | 492 c1420 (Link to this contribution) Order. Yet again, I ask the House to come to order while the hon. Gentleman is on his feet.
Evan Harris | 492 c1420 (Link to this contribution) The House is anxious to hear the statement, and I understand that. [Interruption.] If I do not speak...
David Ruffley | 492 c1432 (Link to this contribution) It is important to put on record on behalf of Her Majesty's Opposition that the trafficking and expl...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1431 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend responded carefully to my earlier intervention, saying that there was evidence that t...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1431-2 (Link to this contribution) It does have large communities, but they are not as diverse as those in Britain. The mechanisms that...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1430-1 (Link to this contribution) May I just finish this point? This is a point on which the Government and I do not completely agree...
Keith Vaz | 492 c1430 (Link to this contribution) I know that my hon. Friend has a great interest and passion in the subject. However, she has clearly...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1430 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is using an inaccurate definition of trafficking. Trafficking does not require ...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1429-30 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is arguing that the Government's proposals as amended by her would help to keep women...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1430 (Link to this contribution) Those laws have indeed been subject to such review. There is quite clear evidence from research show...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1428-9 (Link to this contribution) Given that so many hon. Members wish to speak, I aim to be brief. I want to speak about amendment (a...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1410 (Link to this contribution) The purpose is to give communities the opportunity to have their say. In some cases they accept lap-...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1410 (Link to this contribution) We are currently working on that. The other debate on grandfather rights that I remember was on the ...
Baroness Featherstone | 492 c1411 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister realise that there has been a rash of applications for lap-dancing licences, just ...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1411-2 (Link to this contribution) If establishments have rushed to apply for a licence before the legislation comes into force, thinki...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1409-10 (Link to this contribution) I think that we have to take one step back from those circumstances. We heard in Committee, and in t...
Evan Harris | 492 c1409 (Link to this contribution) To clarify, when the Minister says that he wants strict liability in order to force men, if we can g...
Philip Davies | 492 c1410 (Link to this contribution) Is it the intention of the Government, under the Bill, to close down lap-dancing clubs that were ope...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1407 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks, because they go to the nub of why this is...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1407 (Link to this contribution) The Safety First coalition, which developed following the Ipswich murders, is very much against many...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1407 (Link to this contribution) As I have tried to point out throughout my remarks, we believe that this debate will continue—it wil...
Lord Deben | 492 c1407 (Link to this contribution) I very much hope that the Minister will listen carefully, as I am the Member of Parliament in whose ...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1408-9 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a matter for your discretion, but I hope that my hon. Friend ...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1407-8 (Link to this contribution) That illustrates the problem that I have in trying to get the Bill into the right form to satisfy as...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1408 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will know that I have tabled amendments designed to address that problem, which relat...
Denis MacShane | 492 c1406-7 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's proposed definition, which severely waters down the Bill's original intention, will n...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1405-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is in danger of making our case for us. The difficulty in holding people to accou...
Evan Harris | 492 c1405 (Link to this contribution) It is difficult to get a conviction for rape, even in the starkest circumstances outside prostitutio...
Evan Harris | 492 c1417 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I understand that they have not come to hear this debate or me, but...
Mary Creagh | 492 c1417 (Link to this contribution) During a Joint Committee on Human Rights visit, the hon. Gentleman and I spent an evening that I wil...
Evan Harris | 492 c1417-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is absolutely right. We are talking about extremely vulnerable people, regardless of w...
Speaker | 492 c1418 (Link to this contribution) Order. Once again, I ask all hon. Members who have just come into the Chamber and who have not been ...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1416 (Link to this contribution) I undertake to find out that information, and I am sure that, if my hon. Friend catches your eye, Ma...
John McDonnell | 492 c1416 (Link to this contribution) It would be really helpful if we could get as much information as possible on those estimates, and i...
Speaker | 492 c1417 (Link to this contribution) Order. The level of conversation among Members who have just come into the Chamber is unfair on thos...
Evan Harris | 492 c1416-7 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's speech shows two things: first, that we had good debates in Committee, because three ...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1416 (Link to this contribution) I had finished, but I shall give my hon. Friend one last chance.
Alan Campbell | 492 c1416 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give my hon. Friend any estimates off the top of my head, but I shall find out that informa...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1414-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that there will never be a stigma associated with prostitution in some people's eyes, ...
John McDonnell | 492 c1415-6 (Link to this contribution) In the Government's response to the legislative scrutiny Committee, there is a statement about the p...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1413-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend and I have discussed this at great length. We do not share the same views, but we hav...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1414 (Link to this contribution) Is not the largest barriers to sex workers leaving the industry the stigma that is associated with p...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I welcome much of what my hon. Friend has said, but my difficulty is that Dudley has been particular...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1413 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give an undertaking that this will be the norm for Government policy, but we believe that i...
Lord Deben | 492 c1413 (Link to this contribution) It is likely that the Suffolk Coastal district council would not have need for any of these applicat...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1412-3 (Link to this contribution) The basis upon which we intend to introduce the legislation will give local people and local communi...
Iain Duncan Smith | 492 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, because everyone is waiting for the Minister to sum up. The only reason why I wish...
Paul Robert Holmes | 492 c1393-4 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, but as the case was well made during the debate on the programme motion, I shall not go ...
Lord Coaker | 492 c1390 (Link to this contribution) We do not have much time to speak on these matters, and as I will not be able to respond in detail t...
Andrew Dismore | 492 c1389-90 (Link to this contribution) That is not the point. What I am trying to do is ensure that when we introduce draconian powers, we ...
David TC Davies | 492 c1389 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must have seen in his surgeries, as I have, numerous people who have been victims...
Lord Deben | 492 c1392 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Gentleman noticed that both Ministers have excused their inability to answer questions ...
Paul Robert Holmes | 492 c1392 (Link to this contribution) As was said during the programme motion debate, this complex issue was introduced late in the Public...
James Brokenshire | 492 c1390-2 (Link to this contribution) As many Members will be aware, the background to the Government's gang injunction proposals is the a...
Andrew Dismore | 492 c1390 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. As a result of that assurance, I do not feel the need to put my arg...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the report by the Select Committee and the interest that it has taken in such matters. Of ...
Denis MacShane | 492 c1402-3 (Link to this contribution) I would modestly suggest that a definition that can satisfy everybody is all but impossible to achie...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1405 (Link to this contribution) The crux of the matter is whether there is evidence. The point I made is that if there is evidence o...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1405 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I have adequately understood what my hon. Friend said about the penalty. If someo...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1404 (Link to this contribution) We are saying that we have to be careful about the language we use. The hon. Gentleman may be dismis...
Evan Harris | 492 c1404 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way again. It is useful for the House to discuss these poin...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution) I intend to cover that very point. It is important that we have a workable definition that does the ...
Evan Harris | 492 c1403 (Link to this contribution) First, may I take this opportunity to welcome the fact that the Government have thought further abou...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1403 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend goes to the crux of the debate. I understand that there are different views, no...
Lord Coaker | 492 c1394-5 (Link to this contribution) I wish to make a couple of quick points in the time available to me. I thank all the Members who hav...
Keith Vaz | 492 c1402 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister seen the report of the Select Committee on Home Affairs on human trafficking, which...
James Brokenshire | 492 c1401 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will be aware that this is an issue that we highlighted in the Public Bill Committee. I...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1400-1 (Link to this contribution) First, I want to deal with the matter of encryption keys. New clause 22 and amendment 119 are togeth...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1401-2 (Link to this contribution) Of course, CEOP plays a vital part in tackling this hideous crime. It is important that police offic...
Lord Coaker | 492 c1395-6 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I shall continue. Firearms usage in the city centre dropped fr...
Speaker | 492 c1397-400 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 4— Loitering: decriminalisatio...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 492 c1467-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend and my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Lynda Waltho) have assiduously pushed ...
Bob Spink | 492 c1468 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Home Secretary on pressing on with the strict liability offence. The whole countr...
Lord Grayling | 492 c1468-70 (Link to this contribution) Let me start my remarks by echoing the Home Secretary's words of thanks to those who served on the C...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 492 c1468 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The most important point to bear in mind is that some o...
Chris Huhne | 492 c1470-2 (Link to this contribution) This is a mixed bag of a Bill. We have seen it passing like the proverbial bus, loaded with the vari...
John McDonnell | 492 c1440 (Link to this contribution) We all bring anecdotal evidence. I have been convening Safety First Coalition meetings for more than...
Fiona Mactaggart | 492 c1440 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that one of the most effective exit projects in London, based at Toynbee hal...
John McDonnell | 492 c1440 (Link to this contribution) What came across from all the information we have gleaned, and from the Government's strategy discus...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1440 (Link to this contribution) Criminalising such activities makes it difficult for people to make the choice to exit from that sor...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 492 c1466-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Protecting the public, tackling crime and ...
John McDonnell | 492 c1440-2 (Link to this contribution) In fact, in the consultations the Government undertook, the view expressed time and again in various...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1440 (Link to this contribution) To counter the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), on Friday I wa...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 492 c1467 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend say a little more about how the public might have a say on whether a tempo...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1435-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I intend to say more about that later. Optional reforms would reduce the burden on local au...
David Lepper | 492 c1435 (Link to this contribution) I believe that fees are set nationally under the Licensing Act, but under the usual regime the local...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1436 (Link to this contribution) They ought to welcome it, but of course they do not, because they prefer an uneven mixture of provis...
Dan Rogerson | 492 c1436 (Link to this contribution) At the beginning of her speech, the hon. Lady said that the arguments had been advanced before. That...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1437 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The Minister spoke earlier about possible Department for Culture, Media and Sport plans to g...
Andy Slaughter | 492 c1436-7 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that the Bill is already having an effect. I offer as an example the fact that a ma...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1437 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely the case. In conclusion, I believe that the removal of the frequency-based exemp...
Bob Spink | 492 c1437 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that one of the problems with the TEN is that local councils are either rel...
John McDonnell | 492 c1439-40 (Link to this contribution) May I just say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that this is no way to run a country, is it? We have had two hou...
Lord Deben | 492 c1437-9 (Link to this contribution) Because of the way in which the House works, I am the only Member representing the Ipswich area who ...
Celia Barlow | 492 c1434 (Link to this contribution) In Brighton and Hove, money was ring-fenced for a private Bill to change the licensing law, and ther...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1434-5 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, and it is very difficult—in fact, impossible—for local people to object to those temporary l...
David Ruffley | 492 c1433-4 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a point that is traditionally put across in such discussions and we h...
Lynda Waltho | 492 c1434 (Link to this contribution) Many of us have had problems with lap-dancing clubs in our constituencies. The arguments were well r...
Denis MacShane | 492 c1433 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making his case fairly, but what he is actually saying is that there is going ...
Speaker | 492 c1433 (Link to this contribution) Order. I appreciate that the right hon. Gentleman does not like having his intervention abbreviated,...
David Ruffley | 492 c1433 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend anticipates me, and his points are well made. That is why we see merit in the proposa...
David Burrowes | 492 c1433 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentions a point of principle, but is there not also a point of practice in respect o...
Chris Huhne | 492 c1349 (Link to this contribution) The programming of the entire Bill has been quite extraordinary. The worst aspect is the allocation ...
Lord Coaker | 492 c1349 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Order of 19 January (Policing and Crime Bill (Programme)) be varied as foll...
Lord Coaker | 492 c1349 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the Order of 19 January (Policing and Crime Bill (Programme)) be varied as follo...
David Ruffley | 492 c1351 (Link to this contribution) This is an important Bill, and it is worth putting on the record the fact that in Committee my hon. ...
Chris Huhne | 492 c1350-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I am certainly unable to speculate on what ha...
Evan Harris | 492 c1349 (Link to this contribution) We seem to be in a strange situation whereby the Leader of the House, none other, makes an assertion...
Chris Huhne | 492 c1349 (Link to this contribution) The programming of the entire Bill has been quite extraordinary. The worst aspect is the allocation ...
Paul Robert Holmes | 492 c1353 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful case about the lost opportunity for Back Benchers, members of Select...
Evan Harris | 492 c1352 (Link to this contribution) The programme motion that we are faced with is outrageous—there is no other word to describe it. It ...
Evan Harris | 492 c1355-6 (Link to this contribution) I understand that the only discussion took place between the Government Whip and the Conservative Fr...
Keith Vaz | 492 c1355 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's speech with great interest. Is he telling the House that no disc...
Lynne Jones | 492 c1357 (Link to this contribution) If there is something rotten with the body politic in this country as far as expenses are concerned—...
John McDonnell | 492 c1356-7 (Link to this contribution) I simply want to place on record my extreme concern that, yet again, our debate on a piece of crimin...
Evan Harris | 492 c1353 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. It is not in the Government's interests to present a Bill to the House of Lords—w...
Evan Harris | 492 c1353-5 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, and the corollary to that is that if legislation were passed that turned out not to be g...
Lord Deben | 492 c1353 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the provision of more time for consideration would also be better...
Lord Coaker | 492 c1357-8 (Link to this contribution) I have heard what hon. Members have said, and all that I would say is that this is a matter for the ...
Chris Huhne | 492 c1362 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 492 c1362-5 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 2— Destruction of samples etc:...
Evan Harris | 492 c1375 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that it would be far better to introduce primary legislation following the—...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1373-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall respond to the amendments and new clauses tabled by Opposition Members and speak to those ta...
James Brokenshire | 492 c1370-3 (Link to this contribution) In Committee, I said that the Government's proposal to deal with the retention of DNA data under an ...
Keith Vaz | 492 c1369-70 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely share the hon. Gentleman's concern. A particular incident could lead to DNA being retai...
Paul Robert Holmes | 492 c1369 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman share my concern about the example I gave in Committee? Two boys had t...
Keith Vaz | 492 c1367-9 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne), who based his argu...
Chris Huhne | 492 c1365-7 (Link to this contribution) These new clauses and amendments address the issue of the retention of fingerprints and other DNA sa...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1375 (Link to this contribution) We had that debate at length in Committee, and there are several points to make in response to the O...
Andrew Dismore | 492 c1387-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to the points that the right hon. Gentleman has made. He has given us some evidence in ...
Iain Duncan Smith | 492 c1388 (Link to this contribution) We spent a lot of time on our report. One of the reasons why we recommended no age limit of 18 was t...
Andrew Dismore | 492 c1386-7 (Link to this contribution) The new clause was tabled by the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris), my hon. Fri...
Iain Duncan Smith | 492 c1387 (Link to this contribution) I am not here to defend the Government. My organisation, the Centre for Social Justice, produced an ...
Andrew Dismore | 492 c1385 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 492 c1385-6 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 37, in clause 32, page 26, line...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1376 (Link to this contribution) I shall not, because I am running out of time. Research by the Jill Dando Institute indicates that 5...
Gordon Prentice | 492 c1375 (Link to this contribution) Has my Friend consulted the Information Commissioner? If so, what is his view?
Alan Campbell | 492 c1375-6 (Link to this contribution) Of course we consult and take advice. At present, I am not in a position to tell my hon. Friend exac...
Philip Davies | 492 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his clarification, but do his proposals introduce any kind of gran...
David Lepper | 492 c1412 (Link to this contribution) Does not my hon. Friend think that the system as he has just outlined it could create anomalies? In ...
Andrew Dismore | 492 c1388-9 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the right hon. Gentleman's contention is that the process is likely to bring the la...
Alan Campbell | 492 c1397 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Paul Beresford | 492 c1442-3 (Link to this contribution) In the 30 seconds left, may I sound a positive note? I welcome new clause 22, which supersedes what ...
Keith Vaz | 492 c1351-2 (Link to this contribution) Bearing in mind that this debate is about the programme motion, we would all like to be as brief as ...
David Ruffley | 492 c1351 (Link to this contribution) This is an important Bill, and it is worth putting on the record the fact that in Committee my hon. ...
Subjects
Children
Databases
Crimes of violence
ICT
Genetics
Human trafficking
Injunctions
Protection
Parliamentary scrutiny
Offences against children
Prostitution
Sexual offences
Sex establishments
Legislation
Policing and Crime Bill 2008-09
Link
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