Parliamentary search - Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

708 c1201-60

Session

2008-09

Department

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Marine and Coastal Access Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 1-EN also published.
Thursday, 4 December 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1254 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that. I will start in reverse order and thank him for explaining the defini...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1253-4 (Link to this contribution) I was not seeking to be dismissive of debate. We live and learn, and the Government are happy becaus...

Show all contributions (138)

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 708 c1253 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the noble Lord is right about Amendment A214, which concerns the general defence th...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1252-3 (Link to this contribution) I am inordinately grateful to the noble Earl for moving these interesting and challenging amendments...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1254 (Link to this contribution) I have sympathy with the noble Earl, because these are complex areas. I reiterate that I have an ext...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1250 (Link to this contribution) What about the Russians, indeed? Clearly, there is a general issue around the enforcement of provisi...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1251-2 (Link to this contribution) In moving the amendment, I shall speak also to Amendments A213, A214, A223 and A226. They are probin...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1250 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A212 A212: Clause 137, page 84, line 10, leave out subsection (4)

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1250 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A211 A211: Clause 137, page 84, line 8, leave out "prohibited" and insert "protected" Am...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1250 (Link to this contribution) This has proved to be a great education for those of us who do not spend our lives worrying about th...

Lord Tyler | 708 c1249 (Link to this contribution) It is very helpful that the Minister has taken this approach. He should confirm, and I am sure he ca...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1248-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord says that, but I have given as good an explanation as I can as regards the defence. A...

Baroness Byford | 708 c1249-50 (Link to this contribution) I smiled when the Minister tempted us to have a discussion on the fisheries policy, which I am certa...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1249 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right but the point about the common fisheries policy and legislation is that it ...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 708 c1250 (Link to this contribution) The problem is not only European fishermen. What about the Russians off Shetland? The noble Lord say...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1248 (Link to this contribution) I should like to probe one further point. Clause 143 has a wonderful list of definitions of what thi...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1247-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree that this is an important consideration, and fully understand why noble Lords want an explan...

Lord Tyler | 708 c1248 (Link to this contribution) I cannot answer the question for the Minister, but he may get the missive that he requires from the ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1248 (Link to this contribution) I am not aware of there being a definition in the Bill. I certainly understand the point made by the...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1259-60 (Link to this contribution) I suppose I expected that because it is the answer to everything along the coast: it is somewhere in...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1259 (Link to this contribution) Somewhere in between is the only answer that I can give at this point.

Lord Greaves | 708 c1259 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his response and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, ...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1258 (Link to this contribution) The Minister asked whether it would be conceivable. The answer is: yes, it is. If a site falls into ...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1256-7 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 13 is about an important issue which we keep coming back to: the boundaries between land an...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1256 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 13: Marine boundaries of SSSIs and national nature reserves Amendment A227 A227: Schedule...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1258 (Link to this contribution) I am enormously grateful for that latter contribution. I thought that my worst nightmare was about t...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1257-8 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief. This is an area in which I have a personal interest. Holbeach is a marine parish in...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1255 (Link to this contribution) Clause 139: Fixed monetary policies: procedure Amendment A218 A218: Clause 139, page 85, line 32, ...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1254-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. It seems that the notes that he has received from the Box are probably rather ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1256 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 12: Transitional provision relating to MCZs Amendment A220 A220: Schedule 12, page 258, l...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1255 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 11: Consequential amendments relating to MCZs Amendment A219 A219: Schedule 11, page 257,...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1254 (Link to this contribution) Yes, exactly so. I re-emphasise that we clearly have to comply with international obligations. Of al...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1254 (Link to this contribution) Does that go beyond 12 miles?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1244 (Link to this contribution) That is a good point. There needs to be collaboration between local authorities and the marine manag...

Baroness Byford | 708 c1244 (Link to this contribution) Is it the Minister’s point of view that the by-laws could come from either the MMO or the relevant l...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1246 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A210 A210: Clause 137, page 84, line 1, leave out subsection (3)

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1246 (Link to this contribution) I move Amendment A210 on behalf of my noble friend Lord Taylor. The amendments in this group are ver...

Lord Tyler | 708 c1246-7 (Link to this contribution) We, too, think that it is very important to probe the Government’s intentions in this area. In its c...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1245 (Link to this contribution) No, as regards the provisions contained in this part of the Bill, that falls to the MMO. The point m...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1245 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s reply to this useful debate. I am grateful for the contribution of ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1245 (Link to this contribution) I would add one other point. It is also trying to be proportionate. As the noble Baroness, Lady Mill...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c1245 (Link to this contribution) I am rather less gracious than the noble Lord, Lord Taylor. I thank the Minister for agreeing to tak...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c1238 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1238-9 (Link to this contribution) This is difficult. In essence, we think that we have the balance right. I understand what the noble ...

Baroness Byford | 708 c1244 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister can clarify the by-law question for me. Given what is contained in Clauses 125 ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1244 (Link to this contribution) Clause 125(1) makes clear that: ""The MMO may make one or more byelaws for the purpose of furthering...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1241-2 (Link to this contribution) We would like to associate ourselves with this group of amendments, particularly with the comments m...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1242-3 (Link to this contribution) This carries on our debate about whether we have the balance right and whether there are sufficient ...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c1239-41 (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment A201, I shall speak also to Amendments A202 to A206. These refer to the clause a...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1241 (Link to this contribution) We have joined the noble Baroness on a large number of the amendments in this grouping. She is under...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1239 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Minister on his courage in bringing forward examples that we can get our heads ar...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c1239 (Link to this contribution) Clause 136: Offence of damaging etc protected features of MCZs Amendment A201 A201: Clause 136, pa...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1209 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. I should point out that, under Clause 120(1)(b), the appropriate au...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1209 (Link to this contribution) The advice of the noble Baroness is always taken seriously and we will always look at it. However, i...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 708 c1208 (Link to this contribution) The Government are a bit carried away with their drafting. Clause 119(3)(b), to which my noble frien...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1207-8 (Link to this contribution) We have discussed already the importance of designating marine conservation zones. This debate takes...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1207 (Link to this contribution) It was chopped off before the end, shall we say. Amendment A164 refers to Clause 120 and the report...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1210-1 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, who was as fluent as ever regardless of whether he had ...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1209-10 (Link to this contribution) Again, I am moving this amendment on behalf of my noble friend Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer. I ap...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1209 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A157 A157: Clause 119, page 71, line 31, at end insert— "(d) that the purpose of designat...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1209 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for responding to these amendments so positively. He has said what tho...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1204 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A150A A150A: Clause 119, page 71, line 20, after "authority" insert "for the purpose of c...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1204 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for going into our concerns on this matter so fully, although it is a little qu...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1206 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has already undertaken to look at the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Young. I...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1204-6 (Link to this contribution) We have tabled Amendment A150A to better define the status of the network. Clause 119(2) states that...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1202-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken to this group of amendments. I agree that their anxieti...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1207 (Link to this contribution) Premature?

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1206 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A155 A155: Clause 119, page 71, line 27, leave out paragraph (b)

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1206 (Link to this contribution) That is the exact answer I was hoping for. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment A150A w...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1207 (Link to this contribution) I apologise on behalf of my noble friend Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer. She has been caught short,...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1206 (Link to this contribution) I also support the amendments of the noble Baronesses, Lady Young and Lady Miller of Chilthorne Dome...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1201 (Link to this contribution) Clause 116: Consultation before designation Amendments A142 to A145 not moved. Amendment A146 A14...

Lord Greenway | 708 c1202 (Link to this contribution) My Amendments A148 and A196 are grouped with Amendment A146. Amendment A148 refers to Clause 118, wh...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1201-2 (Link to this contribution) I move Amendment 146 on behalf of my noble friend Lord Taylor. We have tabled this amendment to prob...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1232 (Link to this contribution) In Scotland I was a beneficiary of a small lobster-pot fisherman who produced an excellent lobster f...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1232-3 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister answer one very definite question? I look forward to receiving the much more detai...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1230-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, especially the noble Lord, Lord Gre...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 708 c1232 (Link to this contribution) I am wondering whether the setting of lobster pots would require a by-law. The part of the coast tha...

Lord Tyler | 708 c1229-30 (Link to this contribution) There is a genuine dilemma here, because I entirely agree with what my noble friend says, but I am a...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c1230 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Greenway, raises an interesting point about which vessels can and should be sub...

Lord Greenway | 708 c1228-9 (Link to this contribution) I will speak also to Amendments A208, A209, A224 and A225. Under Clause 125, the MMO is allowed to ...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1229 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister content with the extent of the by-law-making powers? The noble Lord, Lord Greenway, ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1233 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is asking very particular questions and I am not sure I can go into that detail at th...

Lord Greenway | 708 c1233 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the other noble Lords who have spoken and to the Minister for his full response. I ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1233 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I have explained to the noble Baroness that we are masters in our own land and we certai...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1226-7 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point. In referring to the naming and shaming procedure, I should have referred to the...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1225-6 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord says. Regarding the notes from the Box which are of assistance in dealing...

Baroness Byford | 708 c1226 (Link to this contribution) I wish to clarify what the Minister has said. I will read Hansard very carefully. Was he indicating ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1226 (Link to this contribution) Clause 124 provides for identification of the authority and a demand for information. That could mea...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1226 (Link to this contribution) The Minister did not address the last of our amendments in the group about publication of the eviden...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 708 c1224 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Minister in that I do not think that Amendment A176 will do, for the reasons that h...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1224-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure how far I can go with the reassurance, but the noble Lady will appreciate that we shou...

Lord Tyler | 708 c1225 (Link to this contribution) I am following the Minister’s argument as carefully as I can, but I do not think that he is respondi...

Lord Greenway | 708 c1228 (Link to this contribution) Clause 125: Byelaws for protection of MCZs in England Amendment A184 A184: Clause 125, page 76, li...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1227 (Link to this contribution) That was a very interesting debate. I agree with my noble friend Lord Tyler that judicial review is ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1222-3 (Link to this contribution) The amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, raises an important issue. Our Amendments A...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1223 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken to these amendments. Amendment A176, moved by the noble...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1217-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to the series of amendments with which Amendment 167 is grouped. I have tabled th...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1218 (Link to this contribution) My Amendment 180 is in this group. The purpose of the amendment has to do with the advice and guidan...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1216-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister and the noble Baroness for their comments. I would certainly find a copy of the...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1217 (Link to this contribution) Clause 121: General duties of public authorities in relation to MCZs Amendment A167 A167: Clause 1...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1221-2 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A176 A176: After Clause 122, insert the following new Clause— "Offence of breach of duty ...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1222 (Link to this contribution) We have tabled this amendment in the light of some of the bitter experience that, the Minister will ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1215-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, for moving this amendment on behalf of his noble frie...

Baroness Byford | 708 c1216 (Link to this contribution) I seek clarification. I was very grateful for the dates that the Minister gave. He said that the ini...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1216 (Link to this contribution) I shall write to the noble Baroness with further details on that. Clearly, we have knowledge and inf...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1211-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, that the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, was as fluent as ever. ...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 708 c1212 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister did not comment on the suggestion that the networks might cover one-third of ...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1213-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his expeditious response. He suggested that I thought the Governme...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1214 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A162 A162: Clause 119, page 71, line 35, at end insert "and the duty under EU law include...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1214 (Link to this contribution) There are two amendments in this group. Amendment A162, on behalf of my noble friend, is as set out:...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1215 (Link to this contribution) In responding to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, it seemed to me that these amendments were, perhaps, ...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1235 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the right honourable Member for Oldham—I beg his pardon, I get very confused w...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1236 (Link to this contribution) Clause 135: Offence of contravening byelaws or orders Amendment A198 A198: Clause 135, page 82, li...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1235 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I can do better than that by responding constructively to both amendments, although I wi...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1234 (Link to this contribution) On behalf of my noble friend Lord Taylor, I move Amendment A186. This amendment has been tabled to c...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1234 (Link to this contribution) Clause 126: Byelaws: procedure Amendment A186 A186: Clause 126, page 77, line 1, leave out subsect...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1234 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A185 A185: Clause 125, page 76, line 21, leave out "will" and insert "would" Amendment A...

Lord Greenway | 708 c1234 (Link to this contribution) We do not need to prolong this debate any longer. I will certainly read with interest what the Minis...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1234 (Link to this contribution) This is the second time in two days that I have had the delights of Morecombe brought to my attentio...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1233 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that if he had gone to Morecombe on his holidays in the 1950s he would have...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1233 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that what he is talking about comes perilously close to a list?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1238 (Link to this contribution) I am at great risk of saying what I think of jet skiers, on which I am not a million miles from the ...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c1238 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was probably right to avoid giving an example, because out of the mouth of examples com...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1236-7 (Link to this contribution) My Amendment A217 in this group suggests that there should be a system of simple and conditional cau...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c1236 (Link to this contribution) I move Amendment A198 on behalf of my noble friend Lord Taylor. The amendments in this group have be...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1237-8 (Link to this contribution) This has been an extremely interesting debate. It is important that we get this right. I fully accep...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c1237 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A199 is in my name. The noble Duke who led on this group presented it for me admirably, bu...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1250 (Link to this contribution) It is not a loophole; it is an acknowledgement of the reign of the common fisheries policy, which wi...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1244 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, local authorities can make by-laws. They are the authorities that might well be making by...

Lord Greaves | 708 c1209 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for what the Minister has said. If it is covered, that is okay and we may be satisfied...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c1218-21 (Link to this contribution) This has been a useful exploration of this part of the Bill. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, t...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c1223-4 (Link to this contribution) How will this work with Clause 15? Would the MMO stay as the responsible body, for example, if it ha...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1212 (Link to this contribution) I had not taken into account the marine life, but it gives me a chance to speculate on the intellige...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1258-9 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness will recognise, in drafting the Bill we paid special attention to the interfac...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c1221 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s response, which does a great deal to reassure statutory conservatio...

Lord Greenway | 708 c1234 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A193 deals with the same consultation process to which we spoke earlier. I do not really n...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c1224 (Link to this contribution) That is the point about Clause 15: it involves a limited number of authorities and the Bill is clear...

Subjects

Conservation

Coastal areas

Byelaws

Fisheries

Environment protection

EU law

Fishing vessels

Fines

Public bodies

Nature conservation

Marine animals