UK Parliament / Open data

Local Government

Legislative debate on Tuesday, 19 February 2008, in the House of Commons, led by John Healey. The answering member was Robert Neill.
Draft SI on Shropshire (Structural Change). Debate on a motion to approve. Objection taken. Division deferred to 20 February. (Agreed to by 257 votes to 164).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
472 c299-322 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
DEFERRED DIVISION
Wednesday, 20 February 2008
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Shropshire (Structural Change) Order 2008
Tuesday, 8 January 2008
Statutory instruments
House of Lords
House of Commons
Statutory Instruments Joint Select Committee. Eighth report, drawing special attention to draft Cornwall (Structural Change) Order 2008; draft Shropshire (Structural Change) Order 2008; draft Local Authorities (Alcohol Disorder Zones) Regulations 2008; Grants for Fishing and Aquaculture Industries Regulations 2007 (SI 2007/3284); Supply of Information (Register of Deaths) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2007 (SI 2007/3390); and Supply of Information (Register of Deaths) Regulations 2007 (SI 2007/3460).
Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
John Healey | 472 c299 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the draft Shropshire (Structural Change) Order 2008, which was laid before this ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c299 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that the Government rigorously followed the five criteria. One of those criteria w...

Show all contributions (86)
John Healey | 472 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) Because the criterion on support is not about public support; it is about the broad cross-section of...
Mark Pritchard | 472 c302 (Link to this contribution) Many people in Shropshire are concerned that they, as taxpayers, and the county will be penalised fo...
John Healey | 472 c302 (Link to this contribution) Yes, if that is the hon. Gentleman's concern I can say that over the next three years—a period for w...
John Healey | 472 c302 (Link to this contribution) Let me be clear: no, there will be no such penalty. I shall go further. Part of the decision is a ju...
Mark Pritchard | 472 c302 (Link to this contribution) I would not want the Minister to misunderstand my point, although perhaps I did not communicate it a...
John Healey | 472 c303 (Link to this contribution) That was the purpose of getting the independent financial experts to go over the figures to ensure t...
Robert Neill | 472 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm two points? First, can he confirm that the figures that he mentioned, in re...
Philip Dunne | 472 c303 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to the Minister, and I hear his assurance about it not being a county counc...
Robert Neill | 472 c304 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister be a little more specific about the terms and manner in which that requirement wil...
John Healey | 472 c304 (Link to this contribution) I quite understand that concern. The arrangements that we put in place need to deal with those conce...
John Healey | 472 c305 (Link to this contribution) I admire the hon. Gentleman's determination to press his debating point again, but I am not setting ...
Mark Pritchard | 472 c305 (Link to this contribution) Again, I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I know that he wants to be seen to be generous,...
John Healey | 472 c304 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that employees in the affected authorities face a period of unsettled uncertainty, but t...
Mark Pritchard | 472 c304 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way again. He is being very generous indeed, but the proble...
Robert Neill | 472 c305 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister help us with the time scale in which he thinks that those announcements might be ma...
John Healey | 472 c305 (Link to this contribution) I do not see every communication that goes out of the Department, so I cannot give him that absolute...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c305 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that there is a consensus. For the record, can he state that no communication was ...
John Healey | 472 c301-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a bit difficult to make direct comparisons. I am not entirely certain that doing so is relevan...
Andrew Murrison | 472 c301 (Link to this contribution) Is it the Minister's judgment that there was more or less support for this measure than there was fo...
John Healey | 472 c301 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that it was wholly subjective, although I accept that it was a judgment. As I have t...
Robert Neill | 472 c301 (Link to this contribution) The Minister makes a fundamental point about due weight, which we have rehearsed before. What is his...
John Healey | 472 c301 (Link to this contribution) Those ballots were given due weight, as the hon. Gentleman suggests they should have been. They were...
Speaker | 472 c301 (Link to this contribution) Order. There must be a distinction in this House in debate between an intervention and a speech. Int...
Philip Dunne | 472 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, the Minister does not have the benefit of having taken the legislation through Commit...
John Healey | 472 c300 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman has plenty of ammunition and I am sure that he wil...
Speaker | 472 c300 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman might seek to catch my eye later in the debate, and I would not want him t...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c315-6 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend on that point. I want to make a few very brief final points,...
Philip Dunne | 472 c316 (Link to this contribution) Today is a dark day for democracy in Shropshire. According to the Government, Shropshire has an exce...
Paul Keetch | 472 c316 (Link to this contribution) The old Hereford and Worcester.
Speaker | 472 c314 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman may well like to do that, but perhaps outside the Chamber.
Mark Pritchard | 472 c314 (Link to this contribution) I would be delighted to relieve my hon. Friend of £100, but—
Mark Pritchard | 472 c315 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government have failed to recognise the many years of dedicated s...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c314-5 (Link to this contribution) The reason I make that point is that none of the MEPs lives in Shropshire and none of them work ther...
Richard Younger-Ross | 472 c313 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may be disappointed that he has not had his first kiss with the Prime Minister. W...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c312 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point, but I do not want to detain the House any longer because I want ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c312-3 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister opened this debate, he stated that there was no pressure from the Government on Sh...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c312 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way very briefly to my hon. Friend. I am aware that other Members are waiting to speak....
Richard Younger-Ross | 472 c312 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. I note the comments from the Conservative Benches su...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. As I have said repeatedly, it is essential that there is community ...
John Hayes | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Lady's point about dogmatic rigidity, but it is important that we deliver a de...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend has made his point. I am not saying that we should ignore the evidence ...
Speaker | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not going wide of the debate.
Mark Pritchard | 472 c310 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to be too unkind so late at night, or early in the morning, but this also exposes the ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c310 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps because it is so late at night the hon. Gentleman was not listening to what I said earlier—t...
Robert Neill | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) On the basis that we have not yet been given a referendum by the Government, does the hon. Lady thin...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) I can only refer back to what I have seen of the way in which the polls were conducted, which indica...
Paul Keetch | 472 c311 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the debate on television. In Herefordshire, where Conservatives supported a...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c309-10 (Link to this contribution) Even if the right hon. Gentleman had forced Labour councillors to support the measure, it would not ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c309 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady says that the Government have not tried to force the measure on the people of Shropshi...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c310 (Link to this contribution) My understanding of what I have read about the polls undertaken in some of these council areas is th...
Philip Dunne | 472 c310 (Link to this contribution) I agree that local communities should have a say; that was precisely what was offered to the local c...
Philip Dunne | 472 c308 (Link to this contribution) It will not have escaped my hon. Friend's notice that the Act that allows the orders to be put in pl...
Robert Neill | 472 c308 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the point well. I know how much he has fought for his constituency in Ludlow, j...
Andrew Murrison | 472 c308 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my disgust at Government sham consultations? We are hearing about one this...
Robert Neill | 472 c308 (Link to this contribution) I have huge sympathy with my hon. Friend. He knows what happened in the past. In my constituency we ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c308-9 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the will of the people—the will of my constituents—is far more import...
Robert Neill | 472 c309 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, as ever, to my hon. Friend, who has made a valiant point. That is as good a note to e...
John Healey | 472 c307 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman talking specifically about the work of Professor Chisholm?
Robert Neill | 472 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) I genuinely thank the Minister for the care and courtesy that he always shows the House when he pres...
John Healey | 472 c321 (Link to this contribution) No. I am going to come on to the hon. Gentleman's point about the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister...
John Healey | 472 c321 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly not give way to the hon. Gentleman. Conservative Members are right to press their ...
John Healey | 472 c321 (Link to this contribution) We are not setting our face against that arrangement, but we set out in the White Paper and in the c...
Mark Pritchard | 472 c321 (Link to this contribution) To put it politely, the Minister's last remarks were at best disingenuous. The fact is that his Gove...
John Healey | 472 c320 (Link to this contribution) I am short of time; I shall give way to the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard), but not to ...
Philip Dunne | 472 c318-20 (Link to this contribution) I hope the hon. Gentleman will excuse me if I do not. My time is very limited. I want to raise agai...
John Healey | 472 c320 (Link to this contribution) This has been a sharply argued and useful debate, and I would like to respond to a number of points ...
Philip Dunne | 472 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) I have taken a position against unitary primarily because of the lack of democratic accountability, ...
Paul Keetch | 472 c318 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Robert Neill | 472 c320 (Link to this contribution) Please will the Minister quantify the gains?
John Healey | 472 c320 (Link to this contribution) Well, let me move on to my second point. Purely in financial terms, having checked the figures, the ...
John Healey | 472 c303 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill).
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c300 (Link to this contribution) Regrettably, I feel that that is a patronising thing for the Minister to have said, because the refe...
Daniel Kawczynski | 472 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, I was not discussing kissing the Prime Minister; I certainly would not ...
John Healey | 472 c305-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to make that particular point about an area such as Shropshire. The time...
John Healey | 472 c303 (Link to this contribution) I expect to be able to confirm that formally shortly, but my intention would be to see the appointme...
Julia Goldsworthy | 472 c309 (Link to this contribution) This is the fourth debate that we have had on this issue, and a common theme has emerged. The Conser...
Robert Neill | 472 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) Professor Chisholm is one of the people who has done a great deal of work across the piece. No doubt...
Subjects
Local government
Reorganisation
Unitary councils
Shropshire
Shropshire County Council
Legislation
Shropshire (Structural Change) Order 2008
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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