Rating (Empty Properties) Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on question and committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading. Agreed to on question. Money resolution agreed to on question.
Rating (Empty Properties) Bill
Debate on bills on Thursday, 7 June 2007,
in the House of Commons,
led by John Healey.
The answering
member was Michael Gove.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
461 c438-88
Session
2006-07
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Rating (Empty Properties) Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 80-EN also published.
Thursday, 14 June 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 14 June 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
John Healey | 461 c441 (Link to this contribution)
As I shall explain more fully later, the Bill is not a policy measure designed to deal with a proble...
Robert Neill | 461 c442 (Link to this contribution)
I understand the Financial Secretary’s point about the need to make land available when appropriate,...
Show all contributions (81)
John Healey | 461 c442-3 (Link to this contribution)
As the hon. Gentleman probably realises, the answer to his question is problematic. We can never be ...
Andrew Love | 461 c443 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise to my hon. Friend for my absence at the beginning of his speech, and commend him on the ...
Mark Hoban | 461 c444 (Link to this contribution)
indicated assent.
Philip Dunne | 461 c440 (Link to this contribution)
If I heard the Financial Secretary correctly, he said that owners would be encouraged to move on the...
John Healey | 461 c440 (Link to this contribution)
I shall refer in a moment to such circumstances and cite the assessments of one or two significant e...
Joan Walley | 461 c441 (Link to this contribution)
In the south-east there is a real need for affordable homes, but the position is slightly different ...
John Healey | 461 c440-1 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point—there is a distinction. Clearly, the measures in the Bil...
Michael Gove | 461 c445-7 (Link to this contribution)
It is always a pleasure to speak in a debate opened by the Financial Secretary to the Treasury. He m...
Philip Dunne | 461 c447 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has elucidated one of the fundamental flaws in the Bill. Would he care to speculate o...
Michael Gove | 461 c447 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a telling and fascinating point. We must speculate about why business has been ...
Robert Neill | 461 c448 (Link to this contribution)
Is not the concern felt by many in the commercial sector, particularly those involved in small busin...
John Healey | 461 c444-5 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman nods his head sagely; perhaps he has constituency experience of Japanese knotweed...
Michael Gove | 461 c448 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for telling us about the FSB. I will not at present go into the detail...
Michael Gove | 461 c448 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a characteristically acute point. The Chancellor plucked the plumpest cherry th...
Phil Woolas | 461 c448 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot resist intervening on the accusation that the Chancellor has plucked the plumpest, ripest c...
Phil Woolas | 461 c451 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on the ingenuity of his arguments. He is now telling us that pensi...
Michael Gove | 461 c451-2 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman uses two completely separate parts of the argument; however, both emphasise the p...
Michael Gove | 461 c449-51 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out the true way in which we should look at the FSB’s c...
Michael Gove | 461 c449 (Link to this contribution)
I read the shameful piece of spin for which the Minister was responsible when he managed to get his ...
Phil Woolas | 461 c454 (Link to this contribution)
More than that.
Joan Walley | 461 c452-4 (Link to this contribution)
I do not wish to let the opportunity pass of having a Treasury Minister and a Local Government Minis...
Michael Gove | 461 c452 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend crystallises the point that was made equally eloquently in the debate of just a few w...
Phil Woolas | 461 c454 (Link to this contribution)
I did not say that!
Joan Walley | 461 c454 (Link to this contribution)
I know that my hon. Friend the Minister said that there would be more money only from a sedentary po...
Danny Alexander | 461 c454-6 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Joan Walley). I am not o...
Anne Main | 461 c456 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that there might be a perverse consequence? Smaller busines...
Phil Woolas | 461 c457 (Link to this contribution)
Has the hon. Gentleman considered why it has been calculated that revenue would actually go down? Do...
Phil Woolas | 461 c458 (Link to this contribution)
The LGA makes the important point that it wants the extra revenues raised to go back to local govern...
Danny Alexander | 461 c457 (Link to this contribution)
I understand the Government’s argument that the Bill would lead to lower rents over time and to empt...
Danny Alexander | 461 c458 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for that intervention. I am trying to make a more general point: there...
Danny Alexander | 461 c458-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention—and, as the Minister said, well spotted. That is a good point. I...
Robert Neill | 461 c459-60 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the thrust of the hon. Gentleman’s argument. Will he consider what would happen if, as ...
Anne Main | 461 c458 (Link to this contribution)
Has the hon. Gentleman noticed the discrepancy between the Bill and empty dwelling management orders...
Phil Woolas | 461 c458 (Link to this contribution)
Well spotted.
Phil Woolas | 461 c461 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman criticises the Bill on the grounds that clause 1 starts with a formula, but the f...
Robert Neill | 461 c461-3 (Link to this contribution)
As always, I am grateful to the Minister for his useful point. I assure him that my aversion to alge...
Robert Neill | 461 c461 (Link to this contribution)
As a matter of principle the House should be wary of legislation that begins with an algebraic formu...
Robert Neill | 461 c463-4 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and extremely well informed. I suspect that what she said entirel...
Anne Main | 461 c463 (Link to this contribution)
The situation that my hon. Friend describes is very similar to that of St. Albans, where many smalle...
Philip Dunne | 461 c471-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
The proposal is a stealth tax because the people who vote throug...
Speaker | 461 c471 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The Minister is very fond of interjecting from a sedentary position. It would be helpful to t...
Mark Hoban | 461 c474 (Link to this contribution)
This has been a brief, informative and thoughtful debate. I hope that my remarks will match all thos...
Dai Davies | 461 c473-4 (Link to this contribution)
My contribution will be brief. I guess that there will be some slight differences in how the proposa...
Philip Dunne | 461 c466-7 (Link to this contribution)
Let me begin by reminding the House of the origin of business rates. They were developed in, I belie...
Robert Neill | 461 c464-6 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I am almost beginning to regret that I no longer practise la...
Philip Dunne | 461 c467-71 (Link to this contribution)
As I will explain, I am seeking to highlight merely the degree of taxation raised in the measure. I ...
Phil Woolas | 461 c467 (Link to this contribution)
I was simply pointing out from a sedentary position—perhaps rather rudely, for which I apologise—tha...
Danny Alexander | 461 c464 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a significant point. How should we judge whether, for example, a property h...
Philip Dunne | 461 c474 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Phil Woolas | 461 c481-2 (Link to this contribution)
I will come back to that. The hon. Gentleman mentioned another important point earlier about rateabl...
Philip Dunne | 461 c481 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to ask the Minister not to comment on the geographic divide—he is doing so eloquently, g...
Phil Woolas | 461 c480-1 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Ludlow argued that in his experience, which is more substantial than mine, prope...
Michael Gove | 461 c480 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for acknowledging that, in his Budget speech, the Chancellor of the Ex...
Phil Woolas | 461 c479-80 (Link to this contribution)
I shall make my point first, if I may, then the hon. Gentleman can argue against my actual premise, ...
Michael Gove | 461 c479 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Phil Woolas | 461 c478-9 (Link to this contribution)
Hon. Members on both sides of the House have made well-informed speeches. They clearly did their res...
Mark Hoban | 461 c474-8 (Link to this contribution)
That shows the assiduousness of my hon. Friend.
I shall turn first to the comments of the Financial...
Philip Dunne | 461 c474 (Link to this contribution)
Merely to correct the record, as a result of the statement, some members of the Finance Bill Committ...
Mark Hoban | 461 c474 (Link to this contribution)
I am not sure that I have ever been intervened on quite so early in a speech before, but I will give...
Phil Woolas | 461 c484-6 (Link to this contribution)
I completely apologise for getting wrong the author of the windy night argument; I cannot think why ...
Philip Dunne | 461 c482 (Link to this contribution)
As I tried to point out to the Minister, that may be the case, but only after some 15 to 25 years of...
Robert Neill | 461 c484 (Link to this contribution)
The credit for the ““windy night”” argument should be shared between me and the hon. Member for Inve...
Phil Woolas | 461 c482-4 (Link to this contribution)
Except, of course, that we have a regular revaluation of non-domestic rates every five years. Becaus...
Robert Neill | 461 c439 (Link to this contribution)
The Financial Secretary talked about the need to invest, which we all understand and appreciate. The...
Philip Dunne | 461 c438 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has just argued that this country is enjoying—if that is the right word—a very high lev...
John Healey | 461 c438-9 (Link to this contribution)
It is right that supply of property fluctuates as it reflects and responds to demand. That is precis...
John Healey | 461 c438 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
This is a short, specific Bill, but it cont...
John Healey | 461 c439-40 (Link to this contribution)
Our assessment and modelling of the macro-impact of the measure, especially in the context of other ...
Robert Neill | 461 c440 (Link to this contribution)
The Financial Secretary makes the point about London, and I do not dispute the basic situation that ...
John Healey | 461 c439 (Link to this contribution)
The properties in any well-managed investment portfolio, whether of a pension fund or other property...
Ann Coffey | 461 c439 (Link to this contribution)
On the issue of higher rents, my constituency has a number of old mills divided into units for small...
Michael Gove | 461 c448 (Link to this contribution)
Michael Lyons argued that what is required is a balanced change to how the business rate operated. T...
Phil Woolas | 461 c449 (Link to this contribution)
I take it that the hon. Gentleman will give the House an undertaking never to pray in aid the views ...
Richard Bacon | 461 c452 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend reminds me of an occasion when a pig farmer constituent of mine came to see me. He wa...
Danny Alexander | 461 c456-7 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady makes a serious point. In other circumstances, I have expressed a great deal of concer...
Joan Walley | 461 c454 (Link to this contribution)
I am very pleased to hear my hon. Friend the Minister for Local Government say that there will be mo...
John Healey | 461 c443-4 (Link to this contribution)
That is indeed something we have looked at—it was a concern that was expressed to me and on which we...
Philip Dunne | 461 c449 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to pick up the allegation by the Minister that the F...
Danny Alexander | 461 c460-1 (Link to this contribution)
I can do no more than express my wish that the Minister will address the hon. Gentleman’s useful int...
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Timestamp
2024-02-08 18:02:22 +0000
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