UK Parliament / Open data

Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 19 March 2007, in the House of Lords.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
690 c99-154GC 
Session
2006-07
Department
Attorney General
Northern Ireland Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 42-EN also published.
Wednesday, 7 February 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c112-3GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the group which are intended to tighten up the cri...
Countess of Mar | 690 c112GC (Link to this contribution) If Amendment No. 3 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 4 because it will be pre-empted.

Show all contributions (100)
Lord Trimble | 690 c118-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 10: 10: Clause 1 , page 1, line 16, and insert ““, or (c) is involved in serio...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c133-4GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord will permit me—paragraph 1.34 deals with the previous version of this clause, whic...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c135GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to cross swords with the noble and learned Lord on that point. I was trying to disting...
Lord Avebury | 690 c127-8GC (Link to this contribution) In the debate on Clause 7 we shall also be discussing Amendment No. 17, which is consequential. For ...
Lord Trimble | 690 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord for allowing me to come in. At the end of the day, his argument i...
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass | 690 c149GC (Link to this contribution) That is quite right. There is another bit of this. If one turns in the report to paragraph 16.5 to 1...
Lord Trimble | 690 c109-10GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General for his comments. He invited me to make a ch...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c106-9GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great care to the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, who speaks with considerable experi...
Countess of Mar | 690 c99GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as th...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c114-5GC (Link to this contribution) This is a series of amendments to raise the threshold in the statutory test. I should like first to ...
Lord Trimble | 690 c114GC (Link to this contribution) I have also put my name to Amendment No. 3. I do not have anything significant to add to the comment...
Lord Avebury | 690 c110-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: 3: Clause 1, page 1, line 8, leave out ““suspects”” and insert ““is satisfi...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c110GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. I just want to make this very clear. If he or any Member of the Com...
Lord Smith of Clifton | 690 c119GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments would extend even further the circumstances under which the DPP could issue a certi...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 690 c116GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble and learned Lord also consider the phrase ““reasonable foreseeability””—if it is reas...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c116GC (Link to this contribution) I was explaining why it would be asking too much to expect the Director of Public Prosecutions to be...
Lord Avebury | 690 c116GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble and learned Lord take my word for it that if he puts ““substantial risk”” in a search...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c132-3GC (Link to this contribution) There is a problem with that. If I may, I shall just explain why. Public interest immunity—I say thi...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 690 c135GC (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord lays some weight on the assertion that this is not an ouster clause. Sure...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c120GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment illustrates the difficulties in getting this absolutely right. The noble Lord, Lord Tr...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c119-20GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. A number of sound points have been made. The Attorney-General recently rema...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c121-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 12: 12: Clause 1 , page 2, line 22, and insert— ““( ) In determining whether t...
Lord Elton | 690 c122GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment proposed is on page 2 and subject to the same small typing error. It should read ““Pag...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c124GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14: 14: After Clause 6 , insert the following new Clause— ““Challenge of issue...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c125GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister. I tabled that amendment to make the point that those three items, (a), (b) and...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c125GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord’s amendments deal with two connected but separate matters. One, as has just been appa...
Viscount Ullswater | 690 c154GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Wednesday.
Lord Rooker | 690 c152GC (Link to this contribution) I am not going to repeat anything I have said, because what I have said is clearly on the record. On...
Lord Rooker | 690 c151GC (Link to this contribution) We will do our best to answer any questions that come our way. As I have said, the argument for plac...
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass | 690 c147-8GC (Link to this contribution) I begin by saying to the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, that some of us find it extremely hurtful that...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c141-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22: 22: Clause 14 , page 12, line 47, leave out from beginning to end of line ...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c144GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response but he will understand my disappointment with it. I recognise ...
Baroness Park of Monmouth | 690 c143GC (Link to this contribution) When national interests and not just the interests of a part of the United Kingdom are concerned, th...
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass | 690 c149-50GC (Link to this contribution) If the Committee is particularly keen to hear from me, I pose this question: if we do not close this...
Lord Rooker | 690 c150GC (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, that I am always on his side.
Lord Avebury | 690 c101GC (Link to this contribution) We will reflect on what the Minister said, but I am disappointed that he begins with a drafting poin...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c100-1GC (Link to this contribution) As I rise to speak on this Bill for the first time, let me say that I will be dealing with Clauses 1...
Lord Trimble | 690 c101-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2: 2: Clause 1 , page 1, line 5, leave out ““Director of Public Prosecutions””...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble and learned friend Lord Mayhew. I am delighted that he, with his expertise, is he...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 690 c104-5GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to support the second amendment. This is an important matter because trial by jury has always...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c112GC (Link to this contribution) I have added my name to this amendment. The amendments in this group place further safeguards on whe...
Lord Avebury | 690 c117-8GC (Link to this contribution) I expected the noble and learned Lord to reply as he did on Amendment No. 9. The person, whoever it ...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c116-7GC (Link to this contribution) Of course, I will consider that because the noble and learned Lord asks me to do so. However, I come...
Lord Avebury | 690 c133GC (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord relied very heavily on the question of how you deal with cases where sens...
Lord Avebury | 690 c134GC (Link to this contribution) I entirely accept what the noble and learned Lord says, but the argument rejected by the High Court ...
Lord Trimble | 690 c135GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to get too involved in the terminology. I am inclined to agree with the noble and lear...
Lord Rooker | 690 c140-1GC (Link to this contribution) The case made by the noble Lord and the noble Baroness can be seductive, but one has to ask, if a ma...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 21, 26 and 28 tabled in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Sm...
Lord Avebury | 690 c139GC (Link to this contribution) It is helpful to have on the record what the noble and learned Lord has said about the manner in whi...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c123-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord for giving me his explanation of how he feels the DPP will know e...
Lord Smith of Clifton | 690 c125GC (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with Amendments Nos. 14, 15 and 18, because they are an ingenious way to try to...
Lord Trimble | 690 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) I too am of the view that we would be better leaving out Clause 7. The matter came up on Second Read...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c126-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. I accept that the proposal is somewhat cumbersome, but it has...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c125-6GC (Link to this contribution) The reason those words have been chosen, in an amendment made in another place, was to reflect the w...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 690 c154GC (Link to this contribution) May I suggest that this is a suitable time to adjourn the Grand Committee on the Justice and Securit...
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass | 690 c152GC (Link to this contribution) I know that the Minister would not wish to misrepresent the situation. The police ombudsman in the R...
Lord Rooker | 690 c150GC (Link to this contribution) I have enormous respect for him and, besides, I quite like him.
Lord Trimble | 690 c144-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23: 23: Clause 14 , page 13, line 6, at end insert— ““(7) This section shall a...
Baroness Park of Monmouth | 690 c147GC (Link to this contribution) There are two issues here. One is the protection of the operation of the secret services. That is ad...
Lord Rooker | 690 c143-4GC (Link to this contribution) It was only towards the end of the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, that I took on board ...
Lord Glentoran | 690 c143GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness will not be surprised to hear that I disagree with almost everything she has just...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 690 c103-4GC (Link to this contribution) I speak to Amendment No. 13 in the group. At Second Reading, we spoke about our concern at the Direc...
Lord Avebury | 690 c99-100GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Before Clause 1 , insert the following new Clause— ““Presumption of righ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 690 c114GC (Link to this contribution) In my experience, no one ever assumes that somebody has resiled from an amendment simply because the...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 690 c113-4GC (Link to this contribution) I find these amendments attractive, and I look forward with great interest to hearing what the noble...
Lord Trimble | 690 c110GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c116GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord says that with such authority that I am sure he has done it. Therefore, I would not d...
Lord Avebury | 690 c136GC (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord has very fairly said that he will reflect on all that has been put to him...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c136GC (Link to this contribution) I did not want to prolong this matter, but I cannot withstand the noble Lord’s stare. I invite him t...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c134-5GC (Link to this contribution) Given the way the noble Lord started, I need to respond. He invited me to, and I will do so. I do no...
Lord Avebury | 690 c138GC (Link to this contribution) It seemed to me, from reading the JCHR report, that there were other guidelines, and that those that...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c138GC (Link to this contribution) I shall respond immediately to the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, about whether I ...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 690 c137-8GC (Link to this contribution) It is about 14 years since I ceased to be Attorney-General, and in my recollection the right of the ...
Lord Avebury | 690 c136-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 19: 19: Clause 12 , page 10, line 5, at end insert— ““(6) The Crown’s right of...
Lord Avebury | 690 c139-40GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20: 20: Clause 14 , page 11, leave out lines 8 to 11 The noble Lord said: The...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c138-9GC (Link to this contribution) I shall explain the position. I need to set this in context. Clause 12 amends the Juries (Northern I...
Lord Trimble | 690 c120-1GC (Link to this contribution) The Attorney-General has advanced essentially the same point as the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifto...
Lord Avebury | 690 c122-3GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend’s remarks reminded me of an occasion a very long time ago when I was a young man liv...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c123GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful in particular for the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, because he ma...
Lord Trimble | 690 c125GC (Link to this contribution) I regret to say to the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, that I find myself very much in agreement with th...
Lord Goldsmith | 690 c130-2GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of what has been said, it is plain that we need to consider the points. While we do tha...
Lord Mayhew of Twysden | 690 c129-30GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with what has been said. I look forward to hearing what can be put forward against it. The j...
Lord Trimble | 690 c152-4GC (Link to this contribution) It is customary to thank the Minister for his contribution, although I must say at one stage I began...
Lord Rooker | 690 c150GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for the contributions. We are in Grand Committee and I do not think there is any ...
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass | 690 c151GC (Link to this contribution) I may be able to help the Minister on that. It would appear that guidance has not been given. It wou...
Lord Avebury | 690 c141GC (Link to this contribution) We will discuss what the Minister said with the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission and we will...
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass | 690 c149GC (Link to this contribution) I will not explain in detail what TCG does, except that it does some of the work that is vital to th...
Lord Trimble | 690 c149GC (Link to this contribution) And it involves the security services.
Subjects
Accountability
Appeals
Crime
Administration of justice
Attorney General
Juries
Evidence
Intelligence services
Human rights
Intimidation
National security
Northern Ireland
Police
Powers
Relatives
Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission
Offences against the administration of justice
Terrorism
Trials
Attorney General for Northern Ireland
Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland
Northern Ireland Department of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Scheduled offences
Challenge to jury
Legislation
Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill 2006-07
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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