UK Parliament / Open data

Health Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 24 April 2006, in the House of Lords.
Health Bill. Lords Committee stage second day. Grand Committee off the floor of the House (Moses room). Clauses 2 and 3 agreed to, Clause 4 under consideration. New clause considered.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
681 c1-60GC 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department of Health
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Health Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 76-EN also published.
Wednesday, 15 February 2006
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Warner | 681 c41GC (Link to this contribution) They would also be voting against the 94 Conservatives and Liberal Democrats in the other place who ...
Lord Warner | 681 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I did not say that at all. I made it clear that on behalf of the Government I could not accept the a...

Show all contributions (160)
Lord Wakeham | 681 c28GC (Link to this contribution) : I was going to say something but the noble Baroness has said it. However, I cannot resist saying h...
Earl Howe | 681 c25-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17:"Page 2, line 39, at end insert—" ““( ) Regulations under subsection (1) ma...
Lord Warner | 681 c23GC (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give the noble Earl that assurance.
Lord Naseby | 681 c16GC (Link to this contribution) I did not quite understand the point about the variation, which is huge. Is the Minister saying that...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c14GC (Link to this contribution) I have not finished. I shall let the noble Baroness in very shortly, but I wish to make a personal p...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c14GC (Link to this contribution) I gave up 40 years ago at an age at which, as the research clearly demonstrates, my risk of dying fr...
Lord Naseby | 681 c8-10GC (Link to this contribution) Colleagues will recall that there was some mystery about the letter that was allegedly sent to me la...
Lord Naseby | 681 c53GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. I did not want to exaggerate the situation and I had ignored W...
Lord Naseby | 681 c59-60GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl, Lord Howe, spoke to Amendment No. 25, which is more restrictive than my amendment. I...
Lord Monson | 681 c58GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, does he not agree that, unless some qualification is inserted into th...
Earl Howe | 681 c56GC (Link to this contribution) It is not what the amendment says.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c47GC (Link to this contribution) We certainly need to be quite clear about what we mean. I am not absolutely sure, so perhaps the nob...
Lord Monson | 681 c47GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, seeks to impose equality of misery. Over and above that, I suggest th...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c51GC (Link to this contribution) Presumably the noble Lord would wish to include the staff in that survey.
Lord Naseby | 681 c51-2GC (Link to this contribution) Of course. We could separate the staff to be quite clear sure what their view is as opposed to that ...
Lord Monson | 681 c41GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that workers would be denied the protection from second-hand smoke that is to be e...
Lord Tebbit | 681 c37-8GC (Link to this contribution) A couple of points of interest have come up in this debate. First, if noble Lords will excuse me, I ...
Lord Rosser | 681 c39GC (Link to this contribution) The point has been made that this would not worsen the conditions of the staff and employees, but th...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c37GC (Link to this contribution) One of them was Bamburgh Castle Golf Club, in north Northumberland; another was Close House Golf Clu...
Lord Naseby | 681 c37GC (Link to this contribution) We had agreement in the Committee that when we cited sources, we gave the true source. In keeping wi...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c36-7GC (Link to this contribution) I have heard the arguments for the need for an exemption of private members’ clubs, but I do not fin...
Lord Rosser | 681 c36GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. So presumably quite a few people must be employed overall if we are talking about clubs with a ...
Lord Palmer | 681 c28GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, made an impassioned plea for this amendment at Second Reading. As...
Baroness Barker | 681 c27-8GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Howe, on making one of the best speeches on the subject. It was ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c23GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw Amendment No. 11. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 12 and ...
Lord Warner | 681 c24GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord said, the amendment proposes that places where pipe smoking is part of an establis...
Lord Monson | 681 c22GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that the Government intend to allow people to smoke in separate, sealed-off s...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c22-3GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, I should like to add to what the noble Lord, Lord Monson, said. He refe...
Lord Warner | 681 c22GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is one of the issues that we are considering, alongside the other areas that I mentioned. ...
Lord Warner | 681 c15-6GC (Link to this contribution) Another example of the nanny state from the Dispatch Box. I have to say—and I might as well say it ...
Lord Warner | 681 c16GC (Link to this contribution) The point that I am trying to make on costs is that the enforcement authorities—we shall come to thi...
Lord Warner | 681 c15GC (Link to this contribution) As a health Minister, perhaps I may encourage the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, not to take too many pi...
Earl Howe | 681 c8GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendment No. 8 not moved....
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c13-4GC (Link to this contribution) I do not propose to make a lengthy speech because we are in serious danger of, as we did last Thursd...
Lord Naseby | 681 c1GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend moves the first amendment, perhaps I may raise one small technical matter on ...
Viscount Simon | 681 c4GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting the Minister. A Division has been called, and we shall resume at 3.52 p...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c6GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, will the results of the consultation and, if possible, the draft regula...
Earl Howe | 681 c5-6GC (Link to this contribution) That was a very helpful reply, for which I thank the Minister. I am sure he will realise that a good...
Lord Naseby | 681 c7GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do have some evidence. It is anecdotal evidence, as one has worked in Scotland for periods of...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c7-8GC (Link to this contribution) When I living in Scotland a very long time ago, what amazed me was the way that people there were ab...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 681 c7GC (Link to this contribution) I was referring to the cultural differences in drinking, which the noble Lord mentioned earlier.
Lord Naseby | 681 c52GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that, but the other two charities defined the questions. I have total faith in YouGov. ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c53GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, sits down, he mentioned the £796,840 grant the Government made t...
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c53GC (Link to this contribution) That is a very interesting point. If the noble Lord was here when we had the discussion about ventil...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c58GC (Link to this contribution) It may be a little while since the noble Lord has been to a football stadium or a major sports stadi...
Lord Warner | 681 c56-8GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 4 allows for regulations to be made that designate additional smoke-free places and the circu...
Earl Howe | 681 c55GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend in the thrust of his argument. Clause 4 allows Ministers to extend the sco...
Lord Monson | 681 c55-6GC (Link to this contribution) After studying both amendments, I decided to add my name to that of the noble Earl, Lord Howe, rathe...
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c54GC (Link to this contribution) I was unable to be present for the earlier debate and I fear that I shall not add significantly to i...
Lord Warner | 681 c43GC (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord declared his interest of having accepted hospitality from the tobacco manufacture...
Lord Naseby | 681 c43GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, the noble Lord can look at the Register of Members’ Interests.
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c43GC (Link to this contribution) What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, has declared hi...
Lord Naseby | 681 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know the background of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. Perhaps he might let me know. I do not ...
Lord Rosser | 681 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I never knew that my background was of such interest, but the noble Lord would find it out if I decl...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 681 c46-7GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord’s amendment include prisons? Why should prisons be exempt? I spoke on this matte...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c44-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20:"Page 3, line 5, at end insert—" ““( ) premises which are royal palaces, in...
Earl Howe | 681 c46GC (Link to this contribution) I am very much in sympathy with the aim behind the amendments, and the noble Lord has made a powerfu...
Lord Naseby | 681 c44GC (Link to this contribution) With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Warner | 681 c52GC (Link to this contribution) I want to make sure that the noble Lord does not misunderstand what I said. I said that Cancer Resea...
Lord Warner | 681 c50GC (Link to this contribution) I must be wearing down the noble Lord. He clearly knows what is coming and I do not want to upset hi...
Lord Tebbit | 681 c41GC (Link to this contribution) As the House will know, I occasionally see the irony of life. A few weeks back, this House voted by ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c41-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely sorry to keep noble Lords on this point, but the Minister clearly believes that becau...
Lord Rosser | 681 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I was just saying that that was the point that the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, was making about the ame...
Lord Monson | 681 c40GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord just said that, if the amendment were accepted, workers in clubs would be denied the ...
681 c39GC (Link to this contribution) I intend to add only two sentences to the words of the noble Lord who just sat down. His emphasis on...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c38-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am a signatory to this amendment. Someone asked why private clubs should be exempted. There is one...
Lord Tebbit | 681 c40GC (Link to this contribution) How can the noble Lord say that? The condition of these employees at the moment is that they work in...
Lord Rosser | 681 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, will correct me, but I think that it was his argument th...
Lord Tebbit | 681 c35GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend. The provisions of the Bill as they are written, and would be amended by m...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 681 c30GC (Link to this contribution) I have indeed seen that production. I have also seen productions of ““Carmen”” not set in a cigarett...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c29GC (Link to this contribution) It may sound perverse of me not to be deeply concerned about the health of the acting profession; ne...
Lord Monson | 681 c27GC (Link to this contribution) I added my name to this amendment because the issue here is surely one of proportionality. Even if o...
Lord Warner | 681 c23GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord alluded to a tragic case, but this Bill covers enclosed spaces and workplaces. The sp...
Lord Warner | 681 c19-22GC (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments deals with exemptions from smoke-free legislation. I remind noble Lords tha...
Earl Howe | 681 c17-9GC (Link to this contribution) I have a clutch of four quite disparate amendments grouped here and, if I may, I shall take each in ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c16GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 11:"Page 2, line 36, leave out subsection (2)." The noble Lord said: While I am...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c14GC (Link to this contribution) Eighty-three. So it does not seem that cigarettes did him too much harm.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c14GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may come back on that point. First, let me point out that I do not speak for the tobacco i...
681 c10-1GC (Link to this contribution) Circumstances prevented me from attending Committee last Thursday. Indeed, I must confess to Members...
Lord Naseby | 681 c2-4GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak to Amendment No. 8, which goes further than that of the noble Earl. As he said, Chapter...
Lord Naseby | 681 c6-7GC (Link to this contribution) Can I go a bit further with regard to the Scottish similarities? It seems to me that there will be a...
Lord Warner | 681 c6GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I can go any further than to repeat what I said before—that the draft regulation...
Lord Wakeham | 681 c6GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to make a comment before the noble Earl seeks to withdraw the amendment. I have listened to w...
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c52GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord can rest assured that I never was unrevived in the first place. I have every intentio...
Lord Naseby | 681 c53GC (Link to this contribution) We had better leave the questions; the noble Lord is tempting us down further paths, which we should...
Lord Monson | 681 c52-3GC (Link to this contribution) I ask the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, whether the question, part of which he has set out, asked ...
Earl Howe | 681 c59GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, sought to make an amusing, but nevertheless serious, dig at the ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c60GC (Link to this contribution) He is a very versatile Minister—we have learnt that already. Are the regulations dependent on the re...
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c56GC (Link to this contribution) Well, it says ““significant harm””.
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c56GC (Link to this contribution) I have no doubt that the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, would want me at this juncture to declare my inter...
Lord Naseby | 681 c60GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is clearly wriggling because he has been only to the Millennium Stadium and obviously...
Lord Naseby | 681 c43GC (Link to this contribution) It is in the Register of Members’ Interests. I declared it at Second Reading. All my interests have ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I speak as a lifelong member of a registered trade union. It happens to be the British Medical Assoc...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c42GC (Link to this contribution) That was not quite the point that I was making. The reason we are given, whether by the Government o...
Lord Warner | 681 c44GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right: it would be a free vote in these circumstances.
Lord Naseby | 681 c49-50GC (Link to this contribution) Well, I don’t think that the noble Lord was here when we did that, so I am not sure why he should be...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c50-1GC (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the Minister has been very patient but he is not by any means wearing us down. It ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c49GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 22:"Leave out Clause 3 and insert the following new Clause—" ““EXEMPTIONS (1) ...
Lord Warner | 681 c41GC (Link to this contribution) I am just refreshing the noble Lord’s memory on that issue.
Lord Warner | 681 c40-1GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, has made clear, Amendment No. 19 would reinstate the possibility of ...
Lord Palmer | 681 c37GC (Link to this contribution) This is the most emotive amendment that we have discussed today or, indeed, last Thursday. I fully s...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c39-40GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that the Bill would not worsen the staff’s conditions. Some of them might well f...
Lord Rosser | 681 c35GC (Link to this contribution) I oppose the amendment and want to speak against it. It was moved with considerable eloquence and co...
Earl Howe | 681 c30GC (Link to this contribution) That is a very encouraging reply and I am most grateful to the Minister. I am also grateful to other...
Lord Naseby | 681 c31-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 19:"Page 3, line 4, leave out paragraph (b)." The noble Lord said: One feature ...
Earl Howe | 681 c30-1GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is of course right. I must make it my business to see Ian McKellen’s portrayal of...
Lord Warner | 681 c29-30GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, is right: I did enjoy the noble Earl’s speech and I much appreciated h...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 681 c29GC (Link to this contribution) As the question was addressed directly to me, perhaps I may say to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c28-9GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment and congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Howe, on the manner in which he ...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 681 c26-7GC (Link to this contribution) As I have spent my entire professional life in the theatre, it will be no great surprise to anyone, ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c24-5GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what the Minister says. The issue is not whether any representations have been made, but I do...
Lord Naseby | 681 c23-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14:"Page 2, line 39, at end insert ““or places where pipe smoking is part of an ...
Lord Monson | 681 c23GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Earl, Lord Howe, replies, will the Minister answer my point about unlicensed hotels...
Lord Warner | 681 c23GC (Link to this contribution) All hotels will be able to access alternative arrangements in the way in which we said. There is no ...
Earl Howe | 681 c23GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister covered all four of my amendments fully, for which I thank him. There was just one poin...
Lord Naseby | 681 c22GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend responds, I should like to raise the issue of hospices and the terminally ill...
Lord Monson | 681 c19GC (Link to this contribution) The arguments advanced by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, in support of his Amendment No. 13 apply with e...
Baroness Barker | 681 c16-7GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment No. 12. As a Scot, I was sorely tempted to intervene earlier this after...
Baroness Trumpington | 681 c14-5GC (Link to this contribution) Goody, goody! The Committee will forgive me for insisting on speaking, but I wanted to follow the no...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c14GC (Link to this contribution) Its sales go up because they sell and manufacture in China, for example, and its share prices go up....
Lord Warner | 681 c8GC (Link to this contribution) As someone who regularly visits grandchildren in Scotland, I am well seized of the climatic differen...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c11-2GC (Link to this contribution) Following on from what the noble Lord, Lord Russell-Johnston, said, I think that he realises that ma...
Viscount Simon | 681 c1GC (Link to this contribution) I must advise Members of the Committee that if a Division in the Chamber is called while we are sitt...
Lord Warner | 681 c4-5GC (Link to this contribution) Before turning to the amendment, perhaps I may draw the attention of the noble Earl, Lord Howe, to s...
Earl Howe | 681 c1-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7:"Page 2, line 25, leave out subsection (5)." The noble Earl said: In moving A...
Lord Warner | 681 c4GC (Link to this contribution) Before I reply to the amendments, I draw the Committee’s attention to the fact that on the table ove...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 681 c7GC (Link to this contribution) I just want to ask a quick question of the noble Lord, Lord Naseby. I think that we all know that an...
Lord Naseby | 681 c7GC (Link to this contribution) If I had been giving evidence, I would have given the exact source of that evidence. I suppose that ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c52GC (Link to this contribution) All questions are loaded; it is question of which way they are loaded. If the noble Lord would be ki...
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c52GC (Link to this contribution) What objection does the noble Lord have? He says that the problem is the way the questions are formu...
Lord Naseby | 681 c53-4GC (Link to this contribution) We have had a full debate on Clause 3. We have discussed the exemptions; we had a sympathetic answer...
Lord Warner | 681 c58GC (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Lord may need to read Hansard. The point I was making was that there have to be gr...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c58GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving us the assurance that the regulations would be affirmative, not nega...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c58-9GC (Link to this contribution) That in no way assuages my concern about the clause. After all, those decisions are being taken free...
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c56GC (Link to this contribution) If anything, saying,"““a risk of significant harm””" makes it even more vague. I would still like t...
Lord Naseby | 681 c54GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24:"Page 3, line 28, leave out second ““to”” and insert ““unavoidably and not in...
Viscount Ullswater | 681 c54GC (Link to this contribution) I must advise Members of the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to, I will be unable to call...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 681 c60GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday 9 May at 3.30 pm.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c60GC (Link to this contribution) The stadium I know best is the Cardiff Millennium Stadium. The ban on smoking there applies to the b...
Lord Naseby | 681 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution) It is normal in Committee for Members to disclose their interests. It is perfectly proper for anybod...
Lord Warner | 681 c43GC (Link to this contribution) Did he declare it in this Committee?
Lord Clement-Jones | 681 c47GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to speak in this debate, but I was provoked into doing so by hearing the noble Lord,...
Lord Warner | 681 c47-8GC (Link to this contribution) That was a spirited debate. I understand my noble friend’s desire to see the places mentioned in his...
Lord Naseby | 681 c43-4GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord had declared that interest on his first opportunity to speak—to the best of my kno...
Lord Naseby | 681 c51GC (Link to this contribution) I did the Minister a disservice. I should have recognised that he would want to bring in another of ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c48-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. My aim is not to spread o...
Subjects
Clubs
Costs
Buildings
Crown lands and estates
Certification
Employment
Health hazards
Exemptions
Licensed premises
Membership
Public places
Public houses
Parliament
Passive smoking
Scotland
Working conditions
Tobacco
Smoking
Social clubs
Legislation
Health Bill 2005-06
Link
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